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Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

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Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#401

Post by dogma1138 »

mandmandam wrote: post #381
phatfish wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the anti-semite line was easy to make stick because of his well known vocal opposition to the Israeli oppression of Palestinians. So not an incredible feat, but it was a case of corporate interests and the Tory party pushing the "emergency button" as an real Social Democrat was getting too popular and very close to becoming PM. Also, as seems to be the fashion for left wing politicians, he has a soft sp…

> the anti-semite line was easy to make stick No it wasn't. Tremendous coordination and force went into pushing that line. > because of his well known vocal opposition to the Israeli oppression of Palestinians A view shared by right thinking people everywhere. Oppression is bad yo. > it was a case of corporate interests and the Tory party pushing the "emergency button" as an real Social Democrat was getting too popul…

>No it wasn't. Tremendous coordination and force went into pushing that line.

There is no need for coordination when Corbyn did nothing but feed the news cycle with stupid acts and dumb hot takes.

He also directly supported and appeared on stage with people who are anti semites and just did everything possible to be guilty by association.

>And Britain is on the brink of blackouts without Russian oil, thanks to the dependence on oil fostered by Tories and their mates. A left, pro environment government would not have been so dependent in the first place. Being on stage with known anti semites, supporting known anti semites (for other reasons), appearing on Iranian state TV and blurbing one hot take after another.

The UK reliance on Russian fuels was less than 3% of total imports the vast majority of which were through mixed fuel imports from the EU. There were no direct import contracts between the UK and Russia.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#402

Post by benj111 »

origin_path wrote: post #397
benj111 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except people don't tend to die from needing a hip replacement or other quality of life surgeries. The urgent things tend to get done first.

They die of old age instead? Not really better. The point of the NHS is to treat people, if you have to wait three years for treatment that's the same thing as collapse, it's not really different from the user's perspective.

Are you suggesting the 3 year backlog has been cleared in 6 months just from people dying of old age?

I agree a 3 year wait is unacceptable, but 2 years of that was covid. Covid has largely passed so they are now getting through the backlog.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#403

Post by neilwilson »

physicsguy wrote: post #351
neilwilson wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I pay privately through my employer's plan, and then again for the NHS." And yet it is the private system in the UK that is taking away scarce supply from the NHS making it more vulnerable. There is a supply side limit on doctors and nurses, which means private healthcare works like the Fast Track queue at Alton Towers. All it does is allow people with money to jump the queue at the expense of everybody else. And re…

The supply side limit is purely because the government chooses not to train sufficient staff. We have a government imposed cap to train 7500 doctors per year at University. Then when they finish, they do two years at FY1 and FY2 level, but there are not then sufficient places for all doctors to go onto a training programme. A friend of mine is applying for the January intake of anaesthetics this year for e.g. and the…

"We have a government imposed cap to train 7500 doctors per year at University."

We do. And you know why. Because the NHS has no more capacity to train any more than that. In fact this last year it has struggled to do that because it was more interested in ensuring its staff had masks on properly than getting the job done. First year medical student placements in hospitals were the first to get the chop.

To train more people in any system, that system has to do less of what it is currently doing and more training. We can't afford that in the NHS, which is already struggling to meet demand.

Ultimately the problem is that we spent the seed cord in the 1990s, and we're struggling to replace it.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#404

Post by mandmandam »

jen20 wrote: post #382
mandmandam wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the anti-semite line was easy to make stick No it wasn't. Tremendous coordination and force went into pushing that line. > because of his well known vocal opposition to the Israeli oppression of Palestinians A view shared by right thinking people everywhere. Oppression is bad yo. > it was a case of corporate interests and the Tory party pushing the "emergency button" as an real Social Democrat was getting too popul…

> Like - how is BoJo faring right now? Given the two abominations of humanity up for PM now, in 3-4 months he’s going to look positively Churchillian.

You say that like it's a compliment ...

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#406

Post by eli_gottlieb »

ogogmad wrote: post #391
kranke155 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The destruction of Corbyn as an “anti semite” was an incredible act of mass psychological warfare inflicted on the British public. An incredible feat, to all those involved, respect for their skill. I’d never seen anything quite like it before I moved to the Uk.

Didn't some of his own party members accuse him of anti-Semitism? There was a television documentary about it.

Yes but apparently a bit of very real antisemitism is a small price to pay for having the left wing of capital in power instead of the right wing of capital.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#407

Post by ErikCorry »

dogma1138 wrote: post #400
ErikCorry wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7% is not generous in an international comparison. It's on a par with Lithuania or Costa Rica. Denmark spends 10% on health care, Germany 11.7%, Italy 8.7%. https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/e26f669c-en/index.html?i... The NHS is also under huge pressure because of all the European health care professionals that left after Brexit (you won't read about that in the Telegraph) and the huge number of sick days caused b…

You are mixing figures here, OECD stats are for healthcare expenditures the UK currently spends about 12% of its GDP on healthcare and is aligned with most developed economies. This is different to NHS funding alone. Also comparing the UK where healthcare is predominantly a single payer system to countries like Germany isn’t apples to apples. Germany has a multi tiered private-public healthcare system and it’s not si…

Good point. But I can't make the numbers add up. If NHS is 7% and total health care is 12% then the NHS is only 58% of health spending, but how does it then make sense to say it's "predominantly single payer"? Looks to me like the private sector has exploded recently as people pay for private health care/insurance to cover the increasing gaps in the NHS coverage. This does nothing for those who are still just on the NHS.

This looks to be backed up by: "Based on trends observed in early estimates of household final consumption expenditure, household spending on outpatient and hospital services, which include self-funded and insurance-funded treatments, grew by 24.5% and 31.3% respectively in 2021." https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...

But that link also says that NHS spending is 83% of health spending, so like I said I can't get the numbers to add up.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#408

Post by moistly »

moistly wrote: post #230
Silverback_VII wrote: post #102

Excess death is higher in Europe in general. you can see the stats here: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality What I find strange is the increase in excess death among children since April 2021.

I don’t find that strange at all: vaccination/deaths of the elderly meant the virus needed t9 find a new susceptible population. Spanish Flu did the same: started out hurting adults, ended up killing kids.

State a fact about the Spanish Flu, get downvoted by an anti-vax moron. Classic!

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#409

Post by dogma1138 »

ErikCorry wrote: post #407
dogma1138 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mixing figures here, OECD stats are for healthcare expenditures the UK currently spends about 12% of its GDP on healthcare and is aligned with most developed economies. This is different to NHS funding alone. Also comparing the UK where healthcare is predominantly a single payer system to countries like Germany isn’t apples to apples. Germany has a multi tiered private-public healthcare system and it’s not si…

Good point. But I can't make the numbers add up. If NHS is 7% and total health care is 12% then the NHS is only 58% of health spending, but how does it then make sense to say it's "predominantly single payer"? Looks to me like the private sector has exploded recently as people pay for private health care/insurance to cover the increasing gaps in the NHS coverage. This does nothing for those who are still just on the…

Because there are other things that go into healthcare that are accounted for in NHS funding such as hospices and elderly care.

The 83% in your link is the government spending on healthcare as % of total healthcare expenditure not the NHS budget as % of total expenditure.

The government funds other healthcare related expenses that aren’t direct NHS funding.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#410

Post by loldk »

addicted wrote: post #218

I’ve noticed a resistance in the U.S. and UK to look outside. Both countries appear to believe they are unique or special and are simply unwilling to look at how the rest of the world is doing things. Almost all the questions and unknowns posed in this article can be answered by simply looking at neighboring European countries and seeing if they’re seeing the same levels of non COVID excess deaths.

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