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Why aren't smart people happier?

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#401

Post by shepherdjerred »

numbers_guy wrote: post #390
swinnipeg wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consistently find that people who are unhappy/unsuccessful and also identify as "smart" are generally very good at rationalizing why things don't work out for them in a manner that protects their ego.

To be honest, I do not think I have a big ego. If anything I have very low self esteem.

I think those two can ironically often go hand-in-hand.

You over value your self-importance which gives you ego/arrogance. Yet at the same time that self-importance with self-criticism leads to low self-esteem.

I think this is something that I often demonstrate. I feel the need to prove that I'm smart (ego), and I have very high standards for myself (low self-esteem, but it's getting better).

I'm not necessarily saying this is you, just that those two traits aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#402

Post by peaky_blinder »

martopix wrote: post #106
dusted wrote: post #34

I'm not especially smart, or happy, but, personally, I don't know how to be it, or what it feels like. I know pleasure, but being in a constant pleasurable state is not what is meant by happiness as far as I know. Slavoj Žižek (someone who does seem to be especially smart): “Happiness was never important. The problem is that we don't know what we really want. What makes us happy is not to get what we want. But to dre…

There's a beautiful poem by Giovanni Pascoli, "Aléxandros" in which Alexander the Great gets to the Indus river with his army after having conquered half of Asia; he knows it's the end of his conquest and thinks - it was better when I was dreaming of it, I was happier when more challenges, road, destiny where ahead than behind.

James Clear talks about this in his book Atomic Habits. Basically people are happier during the _process_ of trying to accomplish some goal than when they actually accomplish that goal.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#404

Post by Sebb767 »

bena wrote: post #286
Sebb767 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most HNers and programmers have only average intelligence. I'm going to need a source for that. I don't think the average HNer is a genius, but it's quite likely that the average IQ on HN is a bit higher than the population average.

Probably in the 110 range. The average programmer IQ is 110. And I don't think the average HN user is better than the average programmer. You have to figure that from 85 - 120 (depending on the scale) is a huge chunk of the population. Considering that the average HN commenter is involved in programming in some fashion, and that programming is practical math in some fashion, it does stand to reason there's a higher f…

Around 110 would've been ny guess, too; maybe a tad lower - we have some exceptionally gifted people, but also a lot of non-programmers, which probably moves us a bit towards the population average.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#405

Post by throw__away7391 »

nescioquid wrote: post #358
throw__away7391 wrote: post #272

I have noticed that a lot of/majority of "regular people" tend to coast along on the back of others as a way of life. If "smart people" are perceived by friends and family as being problem solvers, many will route their problems to a "smart friend", someone who seems to have their life somewhat in order or always have the answer to everything. I used to get an endless stream of requests for everything from technical…

> "regular people" tend to coast along on the back of others as a way of life...many will route their problems to a "smart friend" The human animal's basic survival strategy is cooperation. I'd imagine your "regular people" friends should be willing to help you out with something not readily in your power (e.g. house-sitting). Because you are intelligent, you get a certain kind of request; if you had a big truck or b…

> I'd imagine your "regular people" friends should be willing to help you out with something not readily in your power

That was actually the trigger for me...a few years ago I needed a very small favor and literally not one person would help because it was just slightly inconvenient for them, at the same time it was a massive ordeal for me, (I had to take a week off work, rent a car, and drive across the country and spent two weeks in a terrible panic besides). Given how much time and resources I'd spent on every one of these folks I was completely shocked to say the least. Everyone gave an obvious and transparent lie as an excuse, saying something like "oh sorry, but hopefully you can find someone else".

I really picked up on this broadly shared idea that "someone else" is supposed to handle this. I really think a lot of the traits that produce "regular people" as I use the term here are this combination of laziness, irresponsibility, and a narrow focus such that they're truly only aware of their own wants and needs at any given moment. I guess things in modern society are so diffused nowadays that it is possible for people deflect a ton of responsibility on other people.

Put another way, most folks are just coasting by as efficiently as possible, but this strategy doesn't produce world class anything, nor deep knowledge nor expertise of any subject. And these are the people who will disproportionately be looking to others to solve their problems.

Another interesting thing I've noticed on this is that while I quickly fell off the radar after a just a few "sorry, I can't help" replies, these folks don't seem to have any trouble whatsoever dealing with each other. Sure, they complain about people quite a lot, about lies and excuses and last minute cancellations or whatever, but week after week it seems everyone in their social group is just fine with the situation.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#406

Post by M3L0NM4N »

starwind wrote: post #379

I’ve seen some other studies that say the opposite and I’m generally skeptical of results that come out of the GSS (it’s too easy to data dredge). There’s a decent amount of evidence that IQ positively correlates with happiness. Here’s a study I found real quick: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/ Results: Happiness is significantly associated with IQ. Those in the lowest IQ range (70-99) reported the lowest l…

This sounds pretty intuitive, that smarter people should have better lives in general.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#407

Post by shepherdjerred »

YeahNO wrote: post #276
willcipriano wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which famous philosophers incorporated magical thinking, thought-crime, misogyny and slavery into their philosophy? Plato, father of most modern philosophy. You have a lot of reading to do my friend.

Yes, if you go back several thousand years, you can find such trash. I suppose I should have limited it to modern philosophers that are more relevant and less influenced by magical thinking to discourage lazy answers. You have not bothered to address the question of the VALUE of incorporating slavery, thought-crime, misogyny and magical thought into one's philosophy. Are you incapable of addressing the problem or do…

> I suppose I should have limited it to modern philosophers that are more relevant and less influenced by magical thinking to discourage lazy answers.

I'm not sure how you can say the father of modern philosophy is a lazy answer.

I think that you can find wisdom even in the presence of flaws. You can always gain something by studying the imperfect.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#408

Post by klik99 »

latexr wrote: post #73
klik99 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question - how old are you? Anecdotally I’ve noticed smart people tend to have this attitude until their late 20s when it starts mellowing out. Now I’m a bit older I see my smarter friends happier than anyone and the less smart just about the same as always

Ding! At a certain point constant existential dread becomes tiring. You spend years mulling on it and the answer continues to be there’s nothing you can do, so what’s the point in worrying? Might as well go do something else and enjoy yourself.

Yeah this - it just takes time, and some don't reach that point, but it's a natural progression after you get your first glimpse at how things are. I often forget how dark it can get when you first face that dread.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#409

Post by MrRiddle »

pauldenton wrote: post #332
miketery wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These debates always devolve into people pointing at outliers. Simply compare the two curves. Those with children vs those without. Your comment stands if you look at outliers, GP stands if you take the curves.

Does the experience of the Outlier not matter because it is not the regular experience?

If we take outliers into the account, then any statement ever regarding human behavior would be false.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#410

Post by klik99 »

pauldenton wrote: post #322
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Buddhism, they advise against spending time pondering "unanswerable questions." [1] If you know a question is unanswerable, and mulling it over makes you unhappy, then it's foolish to continue thinking about it. You can just leave it be and move on with your life. I think most people eventually figure this out on their own some time in their late 20s. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswered_questions#Sabb…

I thought Zen Buddhists pondered unanswerable questions, like what is the sound of one hand clapping.

Previous poster either got this subtly wrong, or phrased it badly, or belongs to a tradition that I'm not familiar with, but a good story on this is the parable of the poisoned arrow: Someone gets shot by an arrow and his friend tells him they have to get to a hospital - the person shot starts worrying about what kind of poison it is, who shot him and why, if the hospital they are going to is any good, etc, etc - really he needs to go and get it treated RIGHT NOW and nothing else matters - he can answer all those questions after he's treated.

And I wouldn't say the zen koans are unanswerable, you can think of them like riddles that force you to think a different way than you normally do.

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