What ever happened to the transhumanists? • Hacker News Board

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#401

Post by celdon25 » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

antifa wrote: post #357

celdon25 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tech needs to improve before it'll rise again. No, it doesn’t, and waiting for the iteration of tech-consumerism that resembles your childhood fantasies is everything that was wrong with the transhumanist movement. It attracted too many people who sat on the sidelines and did nothing to move the needle. It was a magnet for people who couldn’t cope with reality, which occasionally helped, but usually stirred chaos.…

> It attracted too many people who sat on the sidelines and did nothing to move the needle. You'd have to be capable of pushing the boundaries of science and engineering to really push this needle. Plus the money is in oil/adtech and AFAIK this isn't low hanging fruit that anyone can just grab.

Not sure who you are but I'm absolutely sure that very few who made contributions to the transhumanist community did so through "pushing the boundaries of science and engineering". https://web.archive.org/web/20050510004128/http://www.singin...

> Singularity activists can engage in a variety of productive roles related to advancing the Singularity Institute, roles that are just as necessary and critical as the researchers' roles. These include becoming donors, publicists, organizers, speakers, writers, graphic artists, grant writers, networkers and fundraisers.

Thiel became a major donor and co-hosted a summit not long after this call to action. The participation was extraordinary for having been during the "AI Winter", and it became a yearly event for some time. Major investments eventually started pouring into AI/ML tech.

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2006/april26/sin-042606.html

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#402

Post by Emma_Goldman » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

yarg wrote: post #304

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"But I'm not espousing my values, but values vital to the continuation of life." There are no self-grounding values. You cannot objectively justify why fertility is the overriding value here, rather than, say, fairness, liberty or anything else. So yes, you are absolutely espousing your values. If you want to make an argument, make it, don't pretend it's self-evident.

Not all of your ancestors had lives that were free or fair, but every last one of them was fertile.

Every one of them also had kidneys, but that's not an objective argument for the pre-eminent moral value of kidneys.

There is an inescapable choice in choosing the grounds from which to reason out to an ethical conclusion - there is no self-evident starting point, hence the riotous confusion of moral philosophy over the last two millennia.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#403

Post by alexvoda » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

grog454 wrote: post #396

alexvoda wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, some species have already obliterated most other life on earth namely cyanobacteria during the great oxigenation event. Possibly others have done the same. They certainly did not care at all about the destruction they caused. All of this was perfectly "natural". That of course does not mean we should follow their example. It just means that "natural" is not a useful term.

This is still a far cry from a global nuclear winter or a deliberately redirected asteroid, or any other number of things that only humans are capable of.

The Great Oxigenation Event is a terraforming level event. We are not yet capable of such a large scale manipulation. Nuclear winter is at most comparable to a supervolcano or an asteroid impact.

Also, if you consider asteroids to be natural and their orbits to be natural then "nature" is already plenty capable of playing cosmic billiards. Or do you want to restrict nature to just biology?

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#404

Post by tsss » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 6:47 PM UTC

concinds wrote: post #58

It was replaced by Virtual Reality. The transhumanist philosophy was transcendental. Man, armed with innovative genius and deep technological knowledge, could one day remake himself and transcend his limitations. It wasn't so much a "philosophy" as a prediction of an inevitable and obvious future, which they were simply impatient to reach. Freedom from all biological, physical, intellectual constraints! Today, people…

That's bullshit. Transhumanism is about overcoming the human condition. Ibuprofen, penicillin and even ancient technology like animal husbandry or irrigation are more important to transhumanism than VR goggles and pointless magnet implants.

Ironically, this comment is the perfect example for the real reason for the downfall of transhumanism: It has become popular and thus poisoned by clueless tech pornographers with zero understanding of the philosophy.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#405

Post by orangepurple » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 7:22 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #347

adrianN wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big fraction of the anti-transgender movement is not against adults modifying their bodies, but against a) children modifying their bodies, b) persons with modified bodies claiming to be the opposite gender thanks to their modifications (or indeed, before any modification). They probably would have much less of a problem with an adult replacing one of their eyes with an x-ray camera or whatever.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't identify with anything you just wrote.

But I call bullshit on your bullshit. It's easy as cake to brainwash kids. They look up to you in so many ways, especially after they outgrow the first year "vegetative" phase. Kids can be programmed to believe literally anything.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#406

Post by orangepurple » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 7:28 PM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #130

As someone who was quite plugged into the transhumanist scene in the 1990s and well-acquainted with several of the people referenced, I have a perspective that I think explains it more succinctly. When I was introduced to it in the early 1990s, the movement was dominated by extremely technical doers and thinkers, with a culture that encouraged rigor. It was philosophical rather than political. In the late 1990s, tran…

I would like to draw attention to a classic transhumanist philosopher whose style has remained consistent for decades.

https://www.hedweb.com/

The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how genetic engineering and nanotechnology will abolish suffering in all sentient life.

        The abolitionist project is hugely ambitious but technically feasible. It is also instrumentally rational and morally urgent. The metabolic pathways of pain and malaise evolved because they served the fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment. They will be replaced by a different sort of neural architecture - a motivational system based on heritable gradients of bliss. States of sublime well-being are destined to become the genetically pre-programmed norm of mental health. It is predicted that the world's last unpleasant experience will be a precisely dateable event.

        Two hundred years ago, powerful synthetic pain-killers and surgical anesthetics were unknown. The notion that physical pain could be banished from most people's lives would have seemed absurd. Today most of us in the technically advanced nations take its routine absence for granted. The prospect that what we describe as psychological pain, too, could ever be banished is equally counter-intuitive. The feasibility of its abolition turns its deliberate retention into an issue of social policy and ethical choice.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#407

Post by sacrosancty » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 8:15 PM UTC

Banana699 wrote: post #323

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I point out your own hypocrisy, and that of most people, when they worship those mass killers You're sure free to tell me what I think. You should stop, because you're not very good at it. > They kill their own number 7 times per year ? I call bullshit. You don't think a cat kills 7 birds and/or rodents a year? They've put cameras on cats' collars. They're far more deadly than just 7 kills a year. You don't think a…

>You're sure free to tell me what I think You mean you don't view any of those 3 people I mentioned as heros? Ok, This still doesn't change anything, unless you're radically anti war in a way very few people are, there is someone you idol who killed far far more than Ted can ever dream of. >You don't think a cat kills 7 birds and/or rodents a year I concede this point, see my reply to your sister comment for why its…

I think you have some good philosophical points but people are too insulted by your extreme deviance from their own cultural beliefs.

However, I suggest there's a good reason we don't see Ted as a hero but do some political leaders who killed more innocents. It's that almost nobody has the wherewithal to do national-leader level killings but everybody can do what Ted K did so there's much more risk encouraging it.

You make an interesting current-time relevant point about anti-war. Look how many people say they're opposed to war in Ukraine and at the same time say they stand by Ukraine - oblivious to the fact that they're supporting one of the parties conducting the war! Turns out they're not anti-war as soon as it comes to using it to maintain the political power of their favored groups.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#408

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 8:38 PM UTC

aliqot wrote: post #55

mellosouls wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. He is only famous because of the callous methods he used to get his paper published.

Within the confines of this thought experiment: I wonder sometimes if anybody would have read it at all had he not committed these crimes. Obviously the gravity of his crimes overshadowed any bit of sense in what he wrote, and effectively nullifies all ability in most people to even bring reason to the words as they read them. That being said, there is undoubted truth in some of what he said regarding the perils of m…

[deleted]

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#409

Post by blakebreeder » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:00 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #307

fastball wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a few people willingly becoming sterile to solve other issues with their body. Most of the controversy around trans issues that I've seen would not exist if this was the only dimension to it.

Most of the controversy around trans issues is made up nonsense being pushed by a propaganda machine pining to politicize an entire group of people. The same group of people that have turned towards trying to harass gay, lesbian etc individuals because they know they can harness a certain virulent part of their base to harass and antagonize people.

how convenient. relegating any concern for the modern trans movement to pure malevolence. I guess it makes it easier for you.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#410

Post by blakebreeder » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:02 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #347

adrianN wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big fraction of the anti-transgender movement is not against adults modifying their bodies, but against a) children modifying their bodies, b) persons with modified bodies claiming to be the opposite gender thanks to their modifications (or indeed, before any modification). They probably would have much less of a problem with an adult replacing one of their eyes with an x-ray camera or whatever.

Quoted post unavailable.

you are so unreasonable it's almost funny. why even continue after your first statement? why even make your first statement? go bait somewhere else.