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Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

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Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#401

Post by gruez »

wnevets wrote: post #369
gruez wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Slightly smaller yachts for the executives. Yeah, it will result in lower real income for executives ...along with anyone that make more than 3x the poverty threshold, per CBO's report: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...

Is that using the same logic that predicted the Ford Motor Company would go bankrupt in a few years after they raised their minimum wage over a 100 years ago?

I don't know. Based on the wikipedia description[1] they seem pretty reputable by economists and other academics

>Whereas politicians on both sides of the aisle have criticized the CBO when its estimates have been politically inconvenient,[3][4] economists and other academics overwhelmingly reject that the CBO is partisan or that it fails to produce credible forecasts. There is a consensus among economists that "adjusting for legal restrictions on what the CBO can assume about future legislation and events, the CBO has historically issued credible forecasts of the effects of both Democratic and Republican legislative proposals."[5]

So I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they didn't make obvious mistakes in their analysis that a hacker news commenter could have pointed out. Feel free to read the report in depth and disprove that, though.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#402

Post by ThatPlayer »

ALittleLight wrote: post #400
ThatPlayer wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they not producing the same amount of work as anyone else?

No? They have less experience and education on account of being young. Some teens may be geniuses who are better than anyone else, and business owners would be well advised to hire those genius teens at market rates, but some teens will not be as productive as their older counterparts and they shouldn't find themselves forbidden from working just because their labor cannot sell for more than minimum wage.

Age does not equal experience and education.

There are jobs where you don't need any experience and education anyways. The ones that are typically considered minimum wage jobs, like cleaning or restocking shelves. Employers shouldn't be able to hire teenagers for cheap just because they're younger, especially since a teenager isn't going to be less productive than an adult with those types of jobs.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#403

Post by [deleted] »

quantum_magpie wrote: post #64
endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

>two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. My immediate reaction to this statement was.. it's insane? In my opinion it should read 'a single person able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within an hour of public transport commute.' Otherwise it sounds like you don't think anyone should be able to live anywhere reasonable without roommates?

[deleted]

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#404

Post by shukantpal »

bo1024 wrote: post #386
ars wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying that if everyone has extra money, then everyone can afford higher prices. Since they can afford higher prices, people will charge those higher prices. And you are back where you started.

That’s not how market prices are generally set. Competition and demand keep them low. It might happen the way you describe sometimes but it’s far from a guarantee.

Then you can simply encourage competition to drive down prices lower.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#405

Post by loudandskittish »

gruez wrote: post #300
bogwog wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI could allow the elimination of minimum wage entirely, along with a ton of other scattered welfare programs that have lots of administrative overhead and the typical middleman industries that leech off of government programs. It’s a no-brainer!

>It’s a no-brainer! ...aside from how it's funded. >along with a ton of other scattered welfare programs that have lots of administrative overhead and the typical middleman industries that leech off of government programs. That sounds great in theory, if everyone is the type of person that can take care of himself for $15k (or whatever) a year. But what about people with special needs? eg. people with mental health p…

> But what about people with special needs? eg. people with mental health problems or medical conditions requiring expensive therapy? Unless you think we should let those people fend for themselves, you'll still need welfare programs to help those people

Speaking from experience, such people already have to fend for themselves...so nothing really changes.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#406

Post by seanmcdirmid »

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

Not just the USA, but what country does that hold? I guess if housing standards are lower, it is easier to survive on a minimum wage, but you specifically stated an at least 90 sqm 1 bedroom apartment in a semi-prime location. Where in the world is that already possible?

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#407

Post by dhx »

It looks like what needs to change most is consumer expectation for the true cost of dining at sit-down restaurants in their current format. Taking the Applebee's salmon menu item[1][2] as an example and comparing the cost if it were to be replicated in Australia:

Ingredients cost ~USD$11:

In Australia, fresh (never frozen) farmed salmon from Tasmania is $USD29/kg delivered to your doorstep within 24-48hrs of being pulled out of the water. Applebee's salmon menu item[1] looks to have approx 200g serve so that is USD$5.80 for the salmon. Fresh green beans are USD$6/kg (greenhouse as out of season in Australia) and there is probably 100g plated up in Applebee's item, so USD$0.60 for the beans. Premium fresh brushed potatoes are USD$3/kg and there is probably 200g plated up, so another USD$0.60 for the potatoes. Premium fresh asparagus is USD$25/kg (also out of season) and there is perhaps 75g plated up, so another USD$1.90 for asparagus. I've also seen some images of the dish plated up with broccoli instead of beans and asparagus and that is USD$6/kg (also out of season) and assuming 150g plated up, so USD$0.90 for broccoli as a cheaper option. Add two dollars very generously for sundries such as salt, paprika/other spice (not sure what I'm seeing in the photo), olive oil and the slice of lemon. All up, approx. USD$11 for ingredients if you were to make a similar dish at home in Australia. Restaurants generally get better unit pricing from the food service supply chain but the cheaper unit prices of buying in bulk are somewhat offset by increased delivery costs (premium service) and inevitable wastage of buying in bulk.

Typical cost to consumers should be higher than ~USD$36 but is currently ~$USD17 (US including +25% service) or $USD26-30 (AU):

An average food cost percentage for a successful restaurant business (note: still paying minimum or effectively below minimum wage to employees) is 28-35% so picking 30% we end up with this salmon dish needing to have a sale price of USD$36 or AUD$47. Instead, Applebee's are selling that salmon menu item for USD$17 (25% service included) and a salmon dish at a typical restaurant/pub in Australia would be sold for approximately USD$26-30. These sale prices would have to go up higher again to fix the already broken industry with regards to employee treatment and pay (for example, no overtime).

[1] https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g34094-d...

[2] https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/applebees-prices/

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#408

Post by tharne »

strogonoff wrote: post #394
colechristensen wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do not need subsidized housing further driving up prices. We need fewer people in the market and that means less availability of large loans and taxes on commercial real estate loans. You can't have so many people competing to buy real estate to rent to you and pushing out people who want to buy. And people need to be comfortable when a region doesn't want to grow, force them to curtail their commercial zoning, an…

When there are no real infrastructural/environmental limitations for population growth in sight, “our region doesn’t want to grow” paints a picture of some residents placing their own emotional attachment to how things used to be above all else.

> When there are no real infrastructural/environmental limitations for population growth in sight, “our region doesn’t want to grow” paints a picture of some residents placing their own emotional attachment to how things used to be above all else.

What exactly is the problem with that? The only thing that welcomes growth forever is cancer, and economists.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#409

Post by seanmcdirmid »

colechristensen wrote: post #255
nostrademons wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation, probably followed by corruption. Minimum wage would rise to the point where a person could afford a 1BR apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage. Then minimum wage would rise to afford the new rent, and so on. Eventually someone's going to say "Hey, I own an apartment block downtown, I'm supposed to rent it out to th…

Zoning. You link the "zones which employ people" and "zones which house people" to balance so you don't have significantly more jobs than homes. Next you zone for type of housing, where you only allow a certain percentage of the most profitable 1BR apartments to be built, and require those to be above certain size thresholds so that a variety of life situations can actually live in your city. You don't need to "incen…

If you want to go the Japanese liberal zoning route, simply redefine a one bedroom apartment as a 2.5 tatami sized micro dwelling without central heating and maybe a shared bathroom (or maybe no shower in building at all). Western standards on viable housing are a bit more generous than other countries.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#410

Post by sangnoir »

ars wrote: post #289
sangnoir wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now the person with a University degree can command a much higher wage since his skill is in great demand. This does not necessarily follow from the previous statement, and may even be completely unrelated.

It's pretty much automatic. If there's more demand than supply, then companies will offer more money to hire this person with a university degree. The only way you keep this person's wage down is increase supply - have lots of people with university degrees. But that's not the real world, in the real world most people are not able to get a degree.

> The only way you keep this person's wage down is increase supply - have lots of people with university degrees.

Again, the second part of this statement does not necessarily follow from the first. There are countless ways of tweak supply/demand of McJobs, such as low minimum wages resulting in a glut of retail locations , changing total hours non-degreed workers (read high-schoolers) can work, adjusting rules on temp workers, community college intakes, etc.

There a many variables, and increasing minimum wage impacting a subset of (mostly unskilled[0]) workers doesn't automatically mean an increase in income for skilled jobs.

0. I dislike the term, but it conveys my intended meaning. "Jobs that require no prior training" is unwieldy.

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