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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#401

Post by canadian-on-hn »

TL;DR: the original protest was legitimate, albeit tainted by more than a few bad actors. The subsequent several weeks have been harming local residents, and the inaction by both the Ottawa Police Service and Ontario government have resulted in this. I'm not happy it got this far, but blaming Trudeau is (mostly) misplaced.

There is a fair bit of nuance here, so I'm going to try and clarify a bit of what's going on for those that haven't been following. I'll attempt to provide sources as much as I can, and for some context, I live in Ottawa.

The protesters arrived on January 29th, with a rally at Parliament Hill. The original protest was largely peaceful, in the sense that the majority of the protestors did not harm or assault local residents. However, there is photographic evidence of a protester carrying a flag with a swastika on it[0] and at least one protester with a Confederate flag (who was later asked to leave)[1]. Other objectionable reports include drinking and dancing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and protesters assaulting and harassing members of soup kitchen[2]. These initial actions didn't exactly endear them to the locals, but in truth, this was surprisingly peaceful given how bad things could have been.

Beyond the first day, however, things largely got worse for residents of Ottawa. Describing things as "honking" is understating it; for the first two weeks, anyone within a few blocks of the protest had to deal with loud truck horns, and aftermarket "train horns", blaring throughout the majority of the day and night. There is documented evidence[3] that long-term exposure to noise is detrimental to human mental health, so for folks living in this area, things have been horrid. Additionally, idling trucks for so long harms the local air quality, especially in buildings that aren't particularly well-sealed... which tend to be occupied by less well-off folks that are either renting or can't afford to retrofit their home.

I won't go into every single case, but in the subsequent few weeks, there have been cases of attempted arson[4], cases where protesters are attempting to handcuff the doors closed on another building[5], and various reports of folks being harassed for wearing masks, for having the pride flag displayed, and more.

The Ottawa Police Service has been completely ineffectual here, doing nothing more than asking protesters or warning them to leave, but not actually taking any enforcement actions against protesters. Even when a court-ordered injunction against honking horns was granted, the OPS has not enforced it.

Additionally, Doug Ford and the Ontario government have been completely absent, skipping 3 straight conferences on how to deal with the protests[6] in Ottawa.

I'm personally deeply uncomfortable invoking the Emergencies Act here. But it's also true that this is probably one of the last remaining mechanisms to actually deal with the protests - not to prevent protesting from happening, but to ensure that they're not harming the lives of local residents that have their own right to safe, secure, and peaceful life. If the OPS or Ontario government had acted in any meaningful way, this would likely have not been necessary.

[0]: https://twitter.com/YoniFreedhoff/status/1487517973422223374

[1]: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/man-with-confederate...

[2]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/convoy-tru...

[3]: https://www.factmag.com/2016/10/09/sound-fear-room40-boss-la...

[4]: https://globalnews.ca/news/8600592/trucker-convoy-police-inv...

[5]: https://twitter.com/AndreaHorwath/status/1492945668838723593

[6]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ford-trilateral-ottawa-bord...

(edited for spelling/grammar)

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#402

Post by verve_rat »

oceanplexian wrote: post #347
fishidns wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to make sure everyone has the correct piece of data to think about this. The mandate says that non-Canadian truckers need to be vaccinated to enter the country. The mandate says that Canadian truckers, if they are not vaccinated, are not going to be exempt from the normal border entry measures, which is that they'd need to quarantine on entry unless they are vaccinated. The US has a similar mandate for Cana…

>That said, this doesn't really matter because to enter the other country they'll have to be vaccinated anyways. Obviously an unvaccinated trucker from Canada cannot enter the US and return until both the Canadian and US restrictions are lifted. It doesn’t matter in which order they are lifted, but both need to be. Since they are Canadian citizens obviously they are protesting the Canadian component of the travel res…

The science says get vaccinated. It is not required to be vaccinated to deliver goods domestically because that would mean imposing the vaccine on citizens of their own respective countries, which is a can of worms neither government wants to open.

But requiring foreign visitors to have certain vaccines is much less politically fraught. If you don't like it, tough, you don't get to enter said country.

Asking what is the science behind these decisions is being disingenuous and you know that. Please stop.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#403

Post by torstenvl »

typon wrote: post #310
torstenvl wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$7.9mm of ~ $8mm total donations came from the U.S. and Canada. Please don't say things that are flatly untrue.

How is the US not a foreign country?

The U.S. is exactly as foreign to U.S.-Canada border policy as Canada is.

Do you also think Governor Whitmer was meddling in "foreign" affairs when she spoke up?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#404

Post by [deleted] »

gotoeleven wrote: post #333
mmastrac wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the emergencies act was required because the police in Ottawa were _letting the protesters violate the law with impunity_. There are multiple _legal_, _judicial_ injunctions in place and the police are failing to enforce them. The rule of law is breaking down and that cannot be allowed to happen.

They should stick to burning down police stations in minneapolis or whatever.

[deleted]

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#405

Post by aksss »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #211
chrisdhoover wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polling whether rights should be suspended is dangerous. I know nothing of Canadian law, but in the US if 2/3 polled said a peaceful protest should be broken up by the military. The response should condemnation and reassertion of our unalienable rights.

This is not a peaceful protest. There have been multiple documented assaults on the street and of people in the service industry. There were several attempts to burn down residential buildings full of people. The protestors have violated injunctions against making noises at volumes that are harmful to people's hearing, and depriving people of sleep.

> “several attempts to burn down residential buildings full of people”

Sauce?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#406

Post by justinzollars »

MattGaiser wrote: post #67
nirav72 wrote: post #33

This is definately going to back fire on him and his administration. There weren't any major incidence of violence or rioting. They got the bridge cleared. He should've left it at that and let it fizzle out.

> Two-thirds of Canadians support military force to end Ottawa protests: poll https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadia... The current approach seems to be a lot more mild than what the public would accept.

And they are wrong to do so. This is the West. Not the East.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#407

Post by andrewjones34 »

All the comments here are "they don't have support", "it is a small minority", etc. Popularity doesn't prove what is right and wrong, nor will it dissuade those from doing what they think is right. These tactics of "its just you, go home" will not work, because the people using these tactics do not understand their enemy. I support the truckers. I support people having freedom over what they inject in their own bodies. I don't care if I am the only one, I don't care about the threats.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#408

Post by partiallypro »

WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

You can be vaccinated and not support government mandates of vaccines. I don't get why people can't comprehend this. Trudeau's handling of the convoy is not popular, and he's underwater himself on approval rating (despite previously being fairly popular.) The polling on the protests ranges from 44% to 25%, that's not a majority but it's not a number you can just ignore. Foreign money floods into the US for movements that happen here via GoFundMe, etc, and I've never really heard it as a complaint or something the government actively has said they would freeze.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#410

Post by danielvaughn »

sokoloff wrote: post #352
naasking wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is deceptive. It's not supported by a majority of Canadians, but their message was still supported by almost half of Canadians at the outset, and is still supported by a third. When a third of your population speaks, you should listen if you're a representative democracy.

You should listen to the one-third, but you also should listen to the two-thirds and weigh their opinion appropriately more heavily.

Apply this to any other minority and tell me how it reads.
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