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Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

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Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#401

Post by orf »

gregdoesit wrote: post #169

I’ve been talking to close to a dozen current and former Amazon employees since the end of 2021, and reached out to people publicly sharing attrition observations. Amazon attrition is really bad, even in AWS (Amazon employees all agree that AWS is a much better place to work in tech than Amazon retail). At the same time, Amazon has had to pay very high for new hires. Hiring managers used to need to get L10 approval t…

Here’s the actual substack link: https://bigtechnology.substack.com/p/standing-up-for-us-pleb...

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#402

Post by hollerith »

belval wrote: post #400
deltaonefour wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your viewing it from a microcosm and that the rest of the internet actually probably has a more accurate view given that you had to ask your manager about this. What I'm hearing from others is this... there are good teams at amazon... amazon is huge but the overall culture is not what you describe. I guess I'm looking for a more overall picture rather then someone viewing it from the perspective of a good tea…

> At least in my team... > Not saying that it's the same for every SDE... I think my initial comment had enough disclaimer to make it clear that I don't think this is applicable to every team at Amazon. > You realize that a pip is not normal? Even one person getting PIP'ed on a team is is an event and abnormal. The fact that a manager has to "push back" for not pip-ing somone raises a red flag for me. Every company I…

>The idea that on a team of 20 people, during the span of a year, not a single employee (expected rate is ~5%) is underperforming is worthy of writing a justification.

Maybe so, but the probability that the manager will have to write a justification is rather high (35.8% each year).

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#403

Post by orf »

gnaman wrote: post #395
gregdoesit wrote: post #169

I’ve been talking to close to a dozen current and former Amazon employees since the end of 2021, and reached out to people publicly sharing attrition observations. Amazon attrition is really bad, even in AWS (Amazon employees all agree that AWS is a much better place to work in tech than Amazon retail). At the same time, Amazon has had to pay very high for new hires. Hiring managers used to need to get L10 approval t…

>Also, why is Amazon still part of the FANG abbreviation when they have this culture across many of their organisations? Because the term had nothing to do with work culture. The term was coined by Jim Cramer, the television host of CNBC's Mad Money, in 2013, who praised these companies for being “totally dominant in their markets”. The original definition still holds true.

Is Netflix totally dominant still?

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#404

Post by yogenpro »

hintymad wrote: post #316
lhorie wrote: post #145

Judging from what an insider in the HR org told me, we're going to be hearing a lot of stories like this going forward. Apparently, Amazon scale is so large and their attrition rates are so bad that in some markets, every potentially qualified candidate has already applied and failed an interview, or previously worked at Amazon and quit. As the adage goes, necessity is the mother of invention and Amazon seems to be a…

If it's just lowering equity payout, then it's not Netflix's structure. Netflix really tries to make its pay structure fair to its employees by implementing the following policies: 1. They give cash that is generally 20% higher than average market price. 2. If you convert your cash into options, you don't pay the income tax for the forfeited cash. It's your choice on how much cash you'd like to convert. And of course…

> 3. ... if you forfeit $1 of income and the strike price of options is $1, ...

Does this example need another prerequisite "and the current price of NFLX is $1"? Because if the example runs with NFLX at, say $10, then each option already have an intrinsic value of $9.

And combined with #5, those options look like at-the-money call options that expire in 10 years. But in this case it won't make any sense to set the option price (the amount of income to forfeit for each option) according to either strike price or stock price -- shouldn't it be set according to the difference between the two?

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#405

Post by zem »

Osiris wrote: post #342
lhorie wrote: post #145

Judging from what an insider in the HR org told me, we're going to be hearing a lot of stories like this going forward. Apparently, Amazon scale is so large and their attrition rates are so bad that in some markets, every potentially qualified candidate has already applied and failed an interview, or previously worked at Amazon and quit. As the adage goes, necessity is the mother of invention and Amazon seems to be a…

If that's the case, why do they continue to reject candidates based on their automated algorithm test as the first step in the interview? If they had too many candidates and not enough positions, it makes sense, but in the opposite scenario you just lose our on candidates that hate those tests.

i would guess because thinking of people as interchangeable resources amenable to algorithmic management is deeply embedded in the company's dna.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#406

Post by mathattack »

coredog64 wrote: post #289
ipaddr wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting point. Do you the total rounds/average expect time to complete the loop. I agree if I'm looking and someone makes the interview process quick that interest will make me more likely to join.

The full in-person loop is 5 60 minute sessions. Maybe another hour for the initial phone screen.

My experience with Amazon was many rounds, several encouraged “coaching” sessions, and a suggestion that I come up with 2-3 anecdotes relating to each of the 14 values. That’s a big ask to take a pay cut.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#407

Post by dgemm »

koboll wrote: post #365
throwhauser wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think improvised desks are inappropriate for early-stage startups, especially in the 1990s. Apple started in Steve Jobs parents garage.

Right, but Amazon isn't an early-stage startup. It's a tech giant that wants all the employee-squeezing benefits of being an early-stage startup: sacrifice your life and comfort for the sake of the company. It's Day One, after all. The problem is that what makes that sacrifice potentially worth it at an early-stage startup is the potential for equity before hypergrowth. Amazon has virtually no chance of startup-like…

The door desk story you are commenting on is from the 1990s.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#408

Post by Qub3d »

Osiris wrote: post #342
lhorie wrote: post #145

Judging from what an insider in the HR org told me, we're going to be hearing a lot of stories like this going forward. Apparently, Amazon scale is so large and their attrition rates are so bad that in some markets, every potentially qualified candidate has already applied and failed an interview, or previously worked at Amazon and quit. As the adage goes, necessity is the mother of invention and Amazon seems to be a…

If that's the case, why do they continue to reject candidates based on their automated algorithm test as the first step in the interview? If they had too many candidates and not enough positions, it makes sense, but in the opposite scenario you just lose our on candidates that hate those tests.

+1 to this. I will grit my teeth and go through a leetcode/coderpad step (I get it, FizzBuzz and all that) but jumping straight to the technical stuff and not giving me the decency of talking to a human leaves the impression that I'm really just a code-producing machine for the org (Which for Amazon, I no doubt expect I would be).

As a recently posted article here said[0]: "My hunch with those companies was that it wouldn't have been a major issue if I was video-ing in from the State Penitentiary (due to murder charges) as long as I solved the algorithms correctly"

[0]:https://www.joshcsimmons.com/posts/why-i-quit-shopify

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#409

Post by yolovoe »

aantix wrote: post #40
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #20

I'm amazed both with the number of messages I get from Amazon about job openings and the aggressiveness of them. Add on how many are for ill fitting or basically Hail Mary type positions (During the height of the pandemic I got one wanting me to move to Ireland to work in an Amazon office there. They even acknowledged the oddness of the situation but they were really desperate for people to fill those roles). Seems l…

Agree. Looking at HN, Blind, Glassdoor, very rarely do I remember seeing an engineer that would openly state that they love working there.

I work at Amazon. Less than 2 yoe but is comp is solid, even compared to Goog and Meta, perhaps cause I'm currently top of band.

Wlb is amazing. Did 5-6 hour days on last team. Coworkers were chill. Now I work more (6-7 hour days) cause I'm on a systems team, but I get to learn a lot about how EC2 servers are run. My manager cares about my learning and I get basically an hour a week with the tech lead where I can ask them questions.

Have been able to meet a couple principal engineers and they've even reviewed some of my work.

I have nothing bad to shared about my experience so far.

Did I mention I don't have deadlines?

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#410

Post by yanslookup »

giantg2 wrote: post #363
yanslookup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't match my experience. I guess it depends on the role but for engineers it's well known Amazon has been throwing large sign on bonuses to close the vesting gap for years. For instance I received an offer that was 160 base, 325 cash bonus and 5% of my RSUs for my first year, putting my TC at ~510k. Second year was a slightly smaller bonus, and 15% of my RSUs. Is it possible that when folks were voluntarily…

My God. How long do you have to stay for the sign-on to payout? I'd do that job for a year just for the sign-on bonus. $325k is like 2. Decades of saving up.

It's prorated, a portion is paid out every pay check starting from day 1. It's just like normal base cash compensation but they call it a sign on bonus to hack around the low max base comp.
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