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App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

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Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#401

Post by Apocryphon »

nojito wrote: post #392
sudosysgen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students are already made to use iPads or Chromebooks with apps installed using the Apple Enterprise tools that don't have to pass the validation process and can collect all of their information. Same is true of employers and their employees. So what you are talking about is in fact already there, and Apple is fine with it and facilitates it.

MDM is transparent through the profile you install. Same won’t be true via a third party App Store.

App permissions are viewable in Settings- these are enforced at an OS level distinct from App Stores. Or are you suggesting that illicit apps are somehow able to break those restrictions and leak permissions? And bypass the permissions checks built into the platform itself?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#402

Post by zepto »

Apocryphon wrote: post #400
zepto wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many security flaws are there, and when do you anticipate that they will all be eliminated? If you can’t answer these questions, then you can’t make any claim about it being close to perfect.

How many of those security flaws are mitigated by App Store curation, and how many of those flaws are already being let through? At this point we are both asking each other to prove negatives now, as productive as that is. I think we can both agree to disagree.

Weird move. By asking those questions of me, you have proven my point:

You have shown that you don’t know anything about how many security flaws there are or how many are protected from by App Store curation, so your claims up to this point about security have simply been dishonest.

This isn’t about agreeing to disagree. It’s that you’ve just been making up false claims this whole time.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#403

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #402
Apocryphon wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those security flaws are mitigated by App Store curation, and how many of those flaws are already being let through? At this point we are both asking each other to prove negatives now, as productive as that is. I think we can both agree to disagree.

Weird move. By asking those questions of me, you have proven my point: You have shown that you don’t know anything about how many security flaws there are or how many are protected from by App Store curation, so your claims up to this point about security have simply been dishonest. This isn’t about agreeing to disagree. It’s that you’ve just been making up false claims this whole time.

If your point is that App Store curation is insufficient, then I heartily agree with you.

https://www.ft.com/content/914ce719-f538-4bd9-9fdf-42220d857...

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-app-store-malware-click-fr...

https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01/11/wordle-clones-fur...

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#404

Post by zepto »

Apocryphon wrote: post #403
zepto wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird move. By asking those questions of me, you have proven my point: You have shown that you don’t know anything about how many security flaws there are or how many are protected from by App Store curation, so your claims up to this point about security have simply been dishonest. This isn’t about agreeing to disagree. It’s that you’ve just been making up false claims this whole time.

If your point is that App Store curation is insufficient, then I heartily agree with you. https://www.ft.com/content/914ce719-f538-4bd9-9fdf-42220d857... https://www.wired.com/story/apple-app-store-malware-click-fr... https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01/11/wordle-clones-fur...

Those links don’t address the fact they you’ve been lying up until now about your knowledge of iOS security.

Nobody said app store curation is perfect, just that it is necessary in addition to OS security.

It’s not clear what you are trying to do now other than to distract from being caught in a lie.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#405

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #404
Apocryphon wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your point is that App Store curation is insufficient, then I heartily agree with you. https://www.ft.com/content/914ce719-f538-4bd9-9fdf-42220d857... https://www.wired.com/story/apple-app-store-malware-click-fr... https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01/11/wordle-clones-fur...

Those links don’t address the fact they you’ve been lying up until now about your knowledge of iOS security. Nobody said app store curation is perfect, just that it is necessary in addition to OS security. It’s not clear what you are trying to do now other than to distract from being caught in a lie.

App Store curation is beneficial, but it is not absolutely necessary, and in many ways is lacking.

The fact that you cannot begin to imagine a world where Apple's engineering capabilities exists beyond the App Store, nor are aware of the many, many security features they have enabled on both iOS and MacOS [0], speaks of your own skepticism towards Apple's ability to get the job done beyond the App Store. I suggest you read up on Apple's work into system security [1] and elsewhere. It's quite fascinating!

[0] https://support.apple.com/guide/security/app-security-overvi...

[1] https://support.apple.com/guide/security/system-security-ove...

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#406

Post by dane-pgp »

Apocryphon wrote: post #399
dane-pgp wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A judge should be unimpressed if Apple simultaneously argued that they need to protect users from apps which track your location data, and that they need to deny those users the ability to install apps which stop mobile networks from tracking your every move.

Is the ability to have unrestricted access to user location data a component of this lawsuit?

If Apple started arguing that the OS settings page is not a "function[] provided by the Covered Company" because "location data" is a special kind of thing that means the law shouldn't apply to that page, then the specialness of that thing would suddenly become a component of the lawsuit, yes.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#407

Post by zepto »

Apocryphon wrote: post #405
zepto wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those links don’t address the fact they you’ve been lying up until now about your knowledge of iOS security. Nobody said app store curation is perfect, just that it is necessary in addition to OS security. It’s not clear what you are trying to do now other than to distract from being caught in a lie.

App Store curation is beneficial, but it is not absolutely necessary, and in many ways is lacking. The fact that you cannot begin to imagine a world where Apple's engineering capabilities exists beyond the App Store, nor are aware of the many, many security features they have enabled on both iOS and MacOS [0], speaks of your own skepticism towards Apple's ability to get the job done beyond the App Store. I suggest yo…

You still haven’t addressed the fact that you are lying about apple’s security.

You don’t know how many flaws there are, how long before they are fixed, or how many are protected against by the App Store.

You have no facts and yet you continue to make a claim you know you can’t support. Indeed you have presented links that show for certain that Apple’s security is not perfect.

It seems like your ideas about the perfection of Apple’s security exist only in your imagination.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#408

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #407
Apocryphon wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store curation is beneficial, but it is not absolutely necessary, and in many ways is lacking. The fact that you cannot begin to imagine a world where Apple's engineering capabilities exists beyond the App Store, nor are aware of the many, many security features they have enabled on both iOS and MacOS [0], speaks of your own skepticism towards Apple's ability to get the job done beyond the App Store. I suggest yo…

You still haven’t addressed the fact that you are lying about apple’s security. You don’t know how many flaws there are, how long before they are fixed, or how many are protected against by the App Store. You have no facts and yet you continue to make a claim you know you can’t support. Indeed you have presented links that show for certain that Apple’s security is not perfect. It seems like your ideas about the perfe…

> You don’t know how many flaws there are, how long before they are fixed, or how many are protected against by the App Store.

Do you know? I've provided many links about Apple's security, while you have only offered your own opinions. If you have any helpful information, it would definitely be appreciated.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#409

Post by zepto »

Apocryphon wrote: post #408
zepto wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still haven’t addressed the fact that you are lying about apple’s security. You don’t know how many flaws there are, how long before they are fixed, or how many are protected against by the App Store. You have no facts and yet you continue to make a claim you know you can’t support. Indeed you have presented links that show for certain that Apple’s security is not perfect. It seems like your ideas about the perfe…

> You don’t know how many flaws there are, how long before they are fixed, or how many are protected against by the App Store. Do you know? I've provided many links about Apple's security, while you have only offered your own opinions. If you have any helpful information, it would definitely be appreciated.

It doesn’t matter how many links you post if they don’t answer the relevant questions:

How many security flaws are there, and when do you anticipate that they will all be eliminated?

If you can’t answer these questions, then you can’t make any claim about it being close to perfect, or even how good it is.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#410

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #409
Apocryphon wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don’t know how many flaws there are, how long before they are fixed, or how many are protected against by the App Store. Do you know? I've provided many links about Apple's security, while you have only offered your own opinions. If you have any helpful information, it would definitely be appreciated.

It doesn’t matter how many links you post if they don’t answer the relevant questions: How many security flaws are there, and when do you anticipate that they will all be eliminated? If you can’t answer these questions, then you can’t make any claim about it being close to perfect, or even how good it is.

That is fair. I suppose then it is a question of faith in Apple's security abilities. I just happen to trust Apple to be more than their App Store.
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