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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

toot.cat

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#401

Post by wruza »

eptcyka wrote: post #396
wruza wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing that would require not only a universal data format but also a universal taxonomy of terms A regular HR can only do CTRL-F CTRL-V efficiently in their PDF viewer, when automated system would likely test for /\bnode(?:\.?js)?\b/i, because it's a result of a development cycle, which usually includes some field analysis. HRs would LOVE to select something like "where has($node) and years($redux) >= 2 order by yea…

> They are not idiots, they just have piles of data and nonsensical tools. Disagree.

I can see why. Of course a role that requires CTRL-F level of skills attracts low-skill-required resources to a "helper" subrole. But if you replace it with automation, true skills will remain and thrive. Not that I like them on emotional level, their job is to hire you as cheap as possible and demand as much as they can. But hey it's a market. Learn to negotiate and to plan ahead financially for search periods to avoid premature decision pitfalls.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#402

Post by julian_sark »

andylynch wrote: post #400
julian_sark wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing - I have recently created a CV at the EU's job advert aggregation website, EURES, and that appears to be a separate thing? Great to have a standard when the own organization doesn't appear to follow it? wonder

I haven’t tried it, but you should find you can export to and from your EURES profile to Europass (and vice versa)- they are distinct, but connected.

Great tip - thanks! :)

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#403

Post by CalRobert »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #250
CalRobert wrote: post #22

There is! https://jsonresume.org/ But nobody really uses it for data interchange. I use it to render my resume in new layouts now and then. Although, it does let style dictate content sometimes (some templates force you to have dates down to the day for job start and end dates, etc.)

That's not really a "universal format", though. That's an "English language format". Actually, it's an "American format" since I see it specifies "organization" instead of "organisation". Why should resumes in Vietnam or China be using English, after all.

That's true of the fields in the JSON, but for what it's worth you can output your resume in templates for any language you like. I've updated mine to use Hiberno English for instance.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#404

Post by mikkelpaulson »

p_l wrote: post #377
JetAlone wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"crazy outside-the-box madman" I like that so much that I dare not copycat it.

I think I actually scored some jobs and interviews while I still kept "wizard" at the top of my CV...

My LinkedIn recruiter spam dropped substantially when I added "literally a wizard" to the skills section (and removed everything remotely tech-telated).

https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/in/mikkelpaulson

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#405

Post by jfengel »

tomcat27 wrote: post #295
jfengel wrote: post #63

I used to work in ontologies, and what I learned is that people would rather get an 80% heuristic solution for dirty data rather than a 100% correct solution for data they have to clean. The big job sites have resume parsers that work well enough from a PDF or Word doc, and then they don't have to worry about you forgetting a close tag or a mandatory field. Sure, stuff gets lost, but they get 80% of a billion resumes…

that still doesn't really explain why big companies have not initiated a RFC for resume format. they only have to come up with an RFC and just ask everyone to follow. The cost of producing such an RFC is so small. guaranteed reduction in inefficiencies including operational costs. my gut feeling is that 20% improvement could have big butterfly effects.

Because they don't want to commit to it. It would instantly become legacy and an increasing thorn in their sides.

That was what I learned in ontologies: there is nothing so well understood and immutable that the business case won't change. It's so much easier to be vague than to be clear.

I too was convinced that people would rather have good clean data that they could trust, and it would save them a ton of money in the long term while costing a little up front. Maybe someone out there can sell that idea, but it wasn't me.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#406

Post by eptcyka »

wruza wrote: post #401
eptcyka wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are not idiots, they just have piles of data and nonsensical tools. Disagree.

I can see why. Of course a role that requires CTRL-F level of skills attracts low-skill-required resources to a "helper" subrole. But if you replace it with automation, true skills will remain and thrive. Not that I like them on emotional level, their job is to hire you as cheap as possible and demand as much as they can. But hey it's a market. Learn to negotiate and to plan ahead financially for search periods to av…

Maybe I've not applied and worked with big enough companies, but I've never seen an HR person be helpful or in any way been aligned with my interests. This could be forgiven as they may well serve interests which are opposite to mine at times, but there are numerous times where HR representatives just (from what I can gather) pick suboptimal strategies to try and convince me to do something, be it remain or take up a job offer or anything else, i.e. I've yet to see an HR person successfully manage a human resource in an optimal way. And by that I mean that statistically the outcomes would be no different if it was a random person with normal communication skills doing the job of HR or if it was someone with training and experience.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#408

Post by noneeeed »

jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

I think you might be underestimating the number of applicants that some companies deal with. I used to work for a firm that did analytics and surveying for the recruitment industry. While applicant to hire ratios in the tech industry might be 10 to 1, in many jobs you can easily be looking at 100 to 1. At those scales companies are using automated CV scanning tools and outsourced humans to whittle them down to a set that hiring managers can actually cope with. This is why many companies insist that you enter all the information into a structured form.

My basic rule of thumb is that the more structured and formal the CV submission process is, the worse the applicant to hire ratio will be, and so the more people you are up against.

For those of us in the tech industry, especially later in our careers, that probably isn't an issue, but in many other jobs, and earlier in your carreer, then it's going to be an issue. I remember having to re-enter my CV into ATSs back in 2001 for the big companies hiring graduates because they had so many to get throught, smaller companies just wanted your CVs.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#409

Post by raxxorrax »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

In my company our HR department actually reads all applications.

This is not true for the largest corporations of course. But that is a solvable problem, just provide a standardized form. You can even adapt it to the needs of the industry in question. This is actually a great boon because you can specifically ask for qualifications. There should be enough budget for that at least.

If you company easily discards applications your HR is either incompetent or it just isn't looking for candidates. But even then you try to build a connection to people applying to you. You may meet them later because they tend to work in your industry.

Again, there are special rules for the largest of corporations although I think HR should be manned enough to have a sensible recruitment process.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#410

Post by Terretta »

bluGill wrote: post #379
Terretta wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It would seem most of the over-confident “it’s a myth” comments in this thread are from folks not familiar with typical processes for hiring in the 100s to 1000s.

You shouldn't be hiring that many. The company might, but the managers and people doing the interviews should be looking at maybe 20 positions per year. They can read résumés themselves and give it some thought.

Who sorts which 20 out of 20,000 resumes go to which managers? Not the managers. Who is “the company”? That’s who is keyword searching/matching/filtering.
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