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Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#401

Post by jacquesm »

bArray wrote: post #348

> But a leading scientist told Sir Jeremy that “further debate would do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular”. Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, warned it could damage “international harmony”. COVID-19: the time where Scientists pretended to be politicians and politicians pretended to be Scientists. Also if their intention was to not hurt Chi…

> For all we know, COVID-X is just around the corner.

Not necessarily Coronavirus based, but the next jump from one species to another of some pathogen (viral, bacterial) is pretty much a certainty. And with the amount of habitat destruction and bushmeat/wetmarkets we are increasing the odds of it happening soon considerably. The last three decades have seen an ever increasing number of such events each of which has the potential to trigger a pandemic like this one, a milder one or one that is much worse.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#402

Post by scotty79 »

I wonder if having additional two years worth of data changed their mind.

We see how easily this virus mutates. Recent research indicates that Omicron evolved for some time in mice without breaking out back into human population.

Natural origin is way more playsible than ww thought in February of 2020.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#403

Post by enriquto »

Fiahil wrote: post #389
enriquto wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for anything at all they decide to? For me it was the masks. The masks were my tipping point. At some point at the beginning of the pandemic they said that the disease was totally not airborne and that masks were useless. I remember vividly president Macron (a person that I respected before that)…

> I remember vividly president Macron (a person that I respected before that) very serious in TV explaining to all the citizens of the republic that we should not buy nor wear masks. Ah! This one is actually a story of "the lesser of two evils". You can't really tell people to buy masks where there is none available, and you can't really tell there is nothing to do unless you want to put every one in panic mode. You…

> I guess it was easier to take a slight (...) reputation hit,

Not a reputation hit. A credibility hit. Essentially 100% of what they say now is lies to my ears. If their policy is to lie to me "for the global good", this is the most rational position.

I'd have preferred if they had told the truth as they knew it (the disease is airborne, masks help you to avoid infect people, please leave all masks to health personnel, people who hoard masks will be severely punished).

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#404

Post by dTal »

finite_jest wrote: post #371
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they explicitly told us that at the time: “don’t rush out and buy masks, we don’t have enough for healthcare workers as it is, you don’t need them more than they do.” The right just took some sound bites and excerpted the rest of the discussion to “prove” that Fauci was lying, while everyone else was rolling their eyes, and still are. People hear the things that support the story they want to believe, and then ig…

I think you are being a tad too generous here. That wasn't the explicit messaging. Public health officials and experts did in fact lie and palter in that case. Part of the messaging was explicitly "masks are not effective in preventing general public from catching COIVD" [1] You could reasonably see it as a "noble lie", however. The whole thing is also complicated by the fact that science on surgical masks etc. wasn'…

Well technically, that's correct. Most masks that are typically worn are not very effective at preventing the wearer from catching Covid. They are effective at reducing forward transmission. The exception is proper sealed n95 or other filtering mask, and those require training to use properly, as well as being in short supply.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#405

Post by prof-dr-ir »

mandmandam wrote: post #372
prof-dr-ir wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're incorrect? The lab leak theory is still widely considered to be an unlikely possibility.

Quoted post unavailable.

Sorry but where did you see me defend the lack of investigation?

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#406

Post by jacquesm »

iqanq wrote: post #397
jacquesm wrote: post #341

If this comment thread is the way the self proclaimed smartest forum on the web deals with articles like this then we're doomed. This article contributes zero actual evidence, is littered with out of context quotes (including of all places the title), doesn't appear to understand the science or the probabilities involved and finally is clearly written with an agenda. It shouldn't have been posted to HN in the first p…

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2... Page 8.

You don't seem to understand the material you are linking to at all. That's fine by me but this does not constitute evidence in the scientific sense of the word and that's what I am getting at.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#407

Post by reallyagain »

toyg wrote: post #384
CreepGin wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Asian American, this baffles me a little bit. We knew the virus was airborne since January 2020. It was all over Chinese/Taiwanese/SEA news outlets. I live in New England, Asians here started wearing masks months before others. I remember purposely choosing to go to Asian Supermarkets instead of Stop & Shop for safety back then.

I'm Italian and the events in February and March 2020 made it very clear to me how the anglo press largely just ignores foreign sources. The "debate" about lockdown in the UK mirrored the Italian one almost day by day, with a delay of 3 weeks between here and Italy. Italian sources and discoveries were either ignored or discounted. It was like watching a child "discover" on their own how to start a fire. If they do t…

... and if Italy learned the lessons from Asian countries, the initial spike in Italy would not have been so devastating.

I think a more fair take would be that most countries did not take COVID19(in particular, the early variants which were much more dangerous) seriously enough until there was a major source of infections in their country, at which point it was obviously too late.

There are some exceptions(in particular, New Zealand, which is in the Anglo world that you malign), but I think in general it is a true statement.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#408

Post by forgotmypw17 »

This continues the trend of most* "conspiracy theories" proving to be true 6-12 months after they are dismissed by the mainstream.

Excepting completely ridiculous ones, but even those sound more and more plausible with every confirmation.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#409

Post by enriquto »

iqanq wrote: post #385
enriquto wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for anything at all they decide to? For me it was the masks. The masks were my tipping point. At some point at the beginning of the pandemic they said that the disease was totally not airborne and that masks were useless. I remember vividly president Macron (a person that I respected before that)…

What exactly did Macron ever do to earn your respect?

Everybody has my respect by default, until they make a major fuck-up like Macron did there.

Maybe he fucked up sooner than that, thus not being worthy of respect at that point. But I'm not interested in politics at all so I missed it.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#410

Post by scotty79 »

mandmandam wrote: post #373
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they explicitly told us that at the time: “don’t rush out and buy masks, we don’t have enough for healthcare workers as it is, you don’t need them more than they do.” The right just took some sound bites and excerpted the rest of the discussion to “prove” that Fauci was lying, while everyone else was rolling their eyes, and still are. People hear the things that support the story they want to believe, and then ig…

Quoted post unavailable.

Remember their boss was Trump who didn't believe it's a thing at all.
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