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Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

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Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#401

Post by novok »

bananamansion wrote: post #365
nmfisher wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this explains a lot of it. Lots of people think it's unfair that Jim or Pam makes more than they do, but noone ever is blunt with them that "you're making less because you're not as good as them". Even worse are where they've never been told "you're lucky you still even have a job because I was close to firing you for poor performance". To be fair, there are also the interesting niche cases where someone is equ…

if youre one of the employees that found out youre being paid significantly less than your team how do you convince your manager to increase your pay? Knowing youre high performing

If there is a reason that they are perceived as higher performing, maybe you can figure out why. What you might think is important might be different from what your boss think is important as a complete package.

Also a lot of people get really defensive and go into denial mode. Or are really full of themselves. People have a really hard time getting the straight out evaluation, or get despondent, and your manager is trying to give the feedback to the capacity level you have shown.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#402

Post by giddyOnDown1 »

Used to work there as a software developer and was somewhat acquainted with the business model. If you're employed and your employer outsources HR functionality to payroll providers (e.g. PayChex, ADP, etc.), there are contractual agreements to provide it to EWS, whose business model is literally more payroll records = $$$ = stock prices go up.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#403

Post by mostertoaster »

kodemager wrote: post #381
randmeerkat wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what crony capitalism looks like.

I think it’s hard to look at what capitalism has become today and say much positive about it. I say this as someone who works in investment finance where we sell semi-rich semi-professional investors the opportunity to become richer by building solar and wind power plants, and selling them when they are fully operational. Which is about as positive as it gets in capitalism in my experience, considering we’re actually…

> I say this as someone who works in investment finance where we sell semi-rich semi-professional investors the opportunity to become richer by building solar and wind power plants, and selling them when they are fully operational. Which is about as positive as it gets in capitalism in my experience, considering we’re actually helping the world move in the right direction as far as climate change goes.

Isn’t this also exactly what causes crony capitalism. How many of these semi-rich investors, have friends in politics making regulations that will benefit these.

The fact that this is a thing ensures that a percentage of our politicians pimping climate change are not doing so because they care about the environment but because they’re pimps exploiting those below them for their own profit.

Otherwise we’d welcome and fund even fossil fuel nuclear, and gas, technologies alongside the green technologies. The modern car IC engine, is proof that there are even gains to be made while still not being fully green.

But they need to make it super scary, so they can profit more. One day I hope we can see all the money they made in roundabout ways from these green companies (and big pharmaceutical with covid by the way)

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#404

Post by rkagerer »

Why on earth would employers be motivated to sell this data or provide consent to their payroll processors to disclose it?

What's in it for them? I can't imagine the per-employee revenue it brings in would be anywhere near the same magnitude of order as the FTE cost. So it's a drop in the bucket to their bottom line.

Meanwhile the reputational risk and PR blowback once found out could be severe (I certainly would never work for such a shady or ignorant outfit).

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#405

Post by heavyset_go »

otterley wrote: post #300
heavyset_go wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you're on company time, using company facilities and company resources, you have the legally protected right to discuss working conditions with other workers. It doesn't matter if you're using the company's Exchange or Matrix server to do so or not.

I’m afraid you are mistaken. I hope you are not confidently spreading this false information to others as it could put their jobs at risk. https://apps.nlrb.gov/link/document.aspx/09031d4582ec1a7e

Thanks for the correction, I wasn't aware of this decision.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#406

Post by mellavora »

BeefySwain wrote: post #91
BeefySwain wrote: post #21

NOTE: It is possible to freeze access to your employment data here: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze That being said, it doesn't stop employers from continuing to hand Equifax your data on a gold platter, and therefore does nothing to protect you from the inevitable data breach that will result in Equifax being required to give everyone affected $0.36 or one year of free credit monitoring.

Hijacking here to say, literally all you need to get access to someones employment + salary history is their SSN and birthdate. edit: and a past employer that used this system Birthdays are extremely easy to get (public record), and I seem to recall a specific large organization leaking a bunch of SSN's not too long ago.......

SSNs are generated by a not very secret algorithm. They were explicitly designed to be public information.

You don't need a data leak to get someone's SSN.

Also, malicious actors are almost never targeting you specifically. It is enough for them to

1) choose a birthdate

2) generate all SSNs associated with that birthdate

3) get all employment/salary histories accessible with that info.

4) scan the list for interesting tagets

5) ...

6) profit

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#407

Post by oblio »

Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #211
onion2k wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to lie. There's nothing wrong with saying "My current salary is $xxxxx, but I feel that my employer undervalues my skills so I want $yyyyyy. It's why I'm leaving my current role." There is no reason why your future salary has to be based on your current salary. If the employer you're negotiating with disagrees then walking away is the best option because they undervalue your skills too.

In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they h…

The last part doesn't work in almost any company where you're not directly working with the owner.

Middle managers can't approve any raise higher than say, 5%, and even that's after a full review cycle.

It's a lot more likely to put a bullseye on your head as "money driven" or something considered negative (yes, the irony is jarring!).

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#408

Post by onion2k »

Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #211
onion2k wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to lie. There's nothing wrong with saying "My current salary is $xxxxx, but I feel that my employer undervalues my skills so I want $yyyyyy. It's why I'm leaving my current role." There is no reason why your future salary has to be based on your current salary. If the employer you're negotiating with disagrees then walking away is the best option because they undervalue your skills too.

In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they h…

The downside is that this clearly signals to the employer that you weren't making very much before and you are fishing for a big raise.

Calling it "fishing for a big raise" sounds like you're trying to scam a higher salary out of an employer. That just isn't true. There's no reason to think you're worth less just because your previous employer sucked.

Salary negotiation is about finding an amount that the employer and employee agree a job is worth. Any previous salary has no impact on that.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#409

Post by onion2k »

oblio wrote: post #407
Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they h…

The last part doesn't work in almost any company where you're not directly working with the owner. Middle managers can't approve any raise higher than say, 5%, and even that's after a full review cycle. It's a lot more likely to put a bullseye on your head as "money driven" or something considered negative (yes, the irony is jarring!).

Middle managers can't approve any raise higher than say, 5%, and even that's after a full review cycle.

They can ask their boss to approve it though, and if necessary it could go all the way to the top.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#410

Post by heavyset_go »

bkav wrote: post #384
heavyset_go wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. There's a reason using past salary history in employment is illegal in California.

Though you should know that doesn’t stop interviewers from asking.

Oh, I'm aware. I've had interviewers ask me questions that would make a lawyer wince if they overheard. It being a law should provide some incentives to not do illegal things, even if they are rarely enforced.
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