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Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

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Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#401

Post by ralferoo »

tomcooks wrote: post #355
tunesmith wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

company doctor?

In EU companies have to appoint a medical expert that checks worker's health (for free) upon joining the company, and routinely (1-2 times a year, depends on country I guess). Edit: Could be something that only companies whose workers have to do physical labour ("blue collar" jerbs) If you call in sick for more than three days you usually go through your own doctor, so that you get a certification that you're taking…

I know the UK isn't EU any more, but I've never seen that before we left and I've worked in lots of companies in the UK, big and small.

In theory you should get a sick note after 3 days, because the government pays SSP (statutory sick pay) if you're ill, but in practice most companies pay you at your normal salary rate (if you're permanent, not per hour) and don't bother asking for sick note as the SSP is little more than minimum wage. Of course, this is in tech, I know that there are a lot of crappier jobs where employers trust their staff less, and I suspect in those industries the sick note is very much required.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#402

Post by janekm »

zwieback wrote: post #8

The first meeting where your manager just abandoned you and you ended up talking to your manager's boss is totally inappropriate. Being so new to the job basically all the responsibility is with your direct manager and her boss is wrong to dump on you without your manager present. I'd give it another chance though, sounds like the work is fun and maybe you can communicate your concerns to your direct manager.

I took from the TP that the direct manager was meant to attend the meeting but couldn't for reasons. Obviously the meeting should have been rescheduled.

I also got the impression that the manager's boss was venting... presumably they were feeling some pressure from elsewhere to deliver the project. Not a great sign that they took it out on the junior, but this would normally be the job of the middle manager to deflect / explain / shield the junior from.

To the OP: try to not take it personal, the manager's boss was almost certainly venting their own frustrations and "taking it out" on you. Very unprofessional but it happens. It's very unlikely to be a real reflection on your performance. Try to take it as a growth experience to build a bit of "thick skin". You shouldn't have to but it helps to have it (especially if in future years you become the middle manager who has to absorb the venting). Hopefully your direct manager will give you more useful feedback on your performance and perhaps explain the boss's frustrations.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#404

Post by iovrthoughtthis »

sounds like you were just promoted to manager

i joke, but the experience you had would usually have been buffered by your manager, whos job it is to communicate with you about requirements and feedback from above

youre work does not define you. be careful letting these comments impact your perception of your self. equally, mine it for ways you could improve (if thats a goal of yours), raw feedback is the best feedback but accepting it is a muscle you have to work on slowly

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#405

Post by iovrthoughtthis »

davidw wrote: post #48
tacostakohashi wrote: post #26

A few takeaways from an old-timer here: > First, he basically tells me this project should have been finished a long time ago and he can't believe it's taken this long etc. I had no idea that he felt this way before the meeting - I've mostly just been working to get it done before the revised deadline my manager gave me. You need to communicate, build relationships, and get feedback from many people in the organizati…

> Do not put work into things that may or may not be needed. You're a junior dev, someone tells you something is needed, you work hard on it. I guess you learn to question your boss as to whether it's really needed, but that sometimes isn't optimal, either.

i find it useful to develop my own internal model of the goals and direction of a project and lay peoples (including the higherups) "opinions" against that.

if they match, it's probably on point

if not, its probably not worth it

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#406

Post by YPPH »

haunter wrote: post #185
prima-facie wrote: post #40

Your boss is gaslighting & intimidating you. - Do not be intimidated into thinking you did your work poorly. I've seen this happen many times with employees being guilt tripped, especially the younger more junior employees. You are a professional and the work you do is important for the company, you do it with pride and to the best of your ability. - Beware of gaslighting. Some bosses can be incredibly manipulative a…

>Your boss is gaslighting That's not gaslighting. Or not how the word should be used. It has a very specific meaning that somehow lost in the last couple of years, saw a lot of times on reddit too where people use it wrongly all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting In OP's case gaslighting would be something like this - BOSS: I told you to finish this project X weeks ago - OP: But this is the first tim…

Your example conveys that gaslighting occurs as between three (or more) parties, but that's not necessarily the case. Gaslighting most often happens between two individuals.

OP's boss wrongly and intentionally asserting OP didn't do something on time would be gaslighting. So too is each of the following. They are more commonly referred to as gaslighting. That's because they're more subtle, yet might have an even more profound impact:

* You are remembering things wrong.

* You always make a big deal out of these things.

* You need to learn how to take criticism better.

Of course it really depends on the situation. Suppose I negligently publish my organisation's private API keys to a public Git repository. My boss calls me in and says I shouldn't do that in future. I threaten to quit at being blamed for my mistake. My boss says there's no need for it to come to that, and I should be open to constructive feedback. None of this is gaslighting, it's all grounded in facts and reality.

Wikipedia is, of course, not an authority on the use of language. However, it looks like your example is the alternative definition they give, rather than the main one they talk about: making someone question their reality. You can do this by making someone think that by offering erroneous and gratuitous remarks to them.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#407

Post by nerdponx »

strken wrote: post #326
hunter-gatherer wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To piggy back on this, you will most definitely work with and for people who are malicious and gaslight you. Not saying that is the case here, but even if it is, a valuable skill is learning how to cope through it and work with those individuals. It isn't easy, but it is more sustainable than just being a victim.

You want a strategy that works regardless. E.g. if your skip-level manager tells you a project should have been completed a while ago, and this is the first time you're hearing about it, it's better to say "let me follow up on that after the meeting and get back to you, because it's a bit different from the timeline we've set within the project" than to push the blame onto your direct manager, get defensive to your s…

I've had modest success with this kind of thing. Managing to stay calm and maintain your internal composure is very important in the moment.

In a situation like this you need to be able to think on your feet and choose your words carefully, which can be very difficult if you have reverted to a defensive or fearful "fight or flight" mind state.

I personally have benefited a lot from biofeedback and meditation over the years, if only because it has given me the tools to recognize when I am in a fearful state and calm myself down.

The "fear is the mind-killer" mantra from Dune is not really fiction!

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#408

Post by [deleted] »

rdtwo wrote: post #193
JamesBarney wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Stop caring too much about company problems, and focus on your own work. You should not care if the manager does his job poorly or if the company is not doing so well. It not your fault. They are running the business poorly. This entirely depends on whether you care about promotions. Understanding the company problems, and your manager's problems will directly impact your ability to get promoted in the future.

Junior dev should be able to jump ship for promotion without much issues

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#409

Post by _trampeltier »

xanaxagoras wrote: post #227
mushufasa wrote: post #24

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

I have this junior engineer DM'ing me right now and I've been ignoring it because I don't want to deal with him and I have my own work to do. I'm reading through your comment here thinking "hey, I'm pretty good at walking that line, bothering the professor when appropriate, not waiting too long and not asking him for help too soon"... and then it occurred to me this guy is probably bothering the professor where I'm t…

I have no trouble if somebody with less experience ask me anything, but I expect at least one or two ideas how the person thinks she would solve the problem.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#410

Post by ljm »

thegrimmest wrote: post #310
pc86 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I draw a corollary to how graduate medical education works. You go into residency a fresh doctor with zero applicable skills. You may not even be CPR certified, but you're an MD/DO, and you've matched into a residency. You know less about actually helping people than a nurse who's been on the job for a month. You spend the next 3-7 years working 80-100 hours a week learning your chosen specialty. You become an absolu…

What if you just want to write software and not be responsible for mentorship? Why do capable individual contributors always have to be roped into leadership?

I'm not sure I see mentoring as leadership as much as I see it as passing the experience along to someone less senior than you. Or did you become a capable IC in a vacuum, without the guidance of more senior engineers?

Beyond that, you could go into contracting. Do the work, point to your contract whenever someone asks something else of you, move on after 3-6 months, rinse and repeat.

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