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Is Web3 anything?

chris-granger.com

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Re: Is Web3 anything?

#401

Post by CryptoPunk »

nefitty wrote: post #366
CryptoPunk wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarianism != anarchism. It does NOT reject the state's monopoly on violence. It argues it should be used sparingly https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/enforci...

To clarify, from my understanding, in a libertarian society, individuals and groups would be able to hire armed mercenary groups a la private security forces, but with presumably less regulation. That's what I mean by "monopoly on violence", eg only the ruling government has the right to use violence to enforce contracts.

That sounds like anarchism.

Most libertarians want the government to retain a monopoly on violence so that the institution that uses violence is accountable to the public.

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#402

Post by vmception »

dools wrote: post #383
vmception wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats kinda the point, PGP had 25 years to get any use and failed, this form of crypto reached accelerated saturation very quickly You thought you had a rebuttal and walked right into why its working Those users can learn not to get taken advantage of

Accelerated saturation!?! What's happened is that a bunch of people who have zero understanding about what crypto is or how it works have been able to buy an asset because a bunch of people using pre-existing technological and legal frameworks created platforms for them to do so. The "accelerated saturation" you are referring to relies on the very types of trust and authority that the article claims to obviate the ne…

my only point is that PGP had the same opportunity and failed for nearly three decades, in comparison

in both there are opportunities for people with zero understanding to use a platform created by someone else. crypto asset sector has been more successful.

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#403

Post by vmception »

dools wrote: post #384
vmception wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit cards, credit cards and ATMs came with new best practices to be aware of. And no, not all gaffs result in reimbursals from the bank. Here, we are acknowledging thats there are humans that commit malicious actions and they shouldn’t do that, and also acknowledge that there are programs that exist in perpetuity to do this which means there is no malicious human to educate, and requires (not just advises) the pote…

But where do all those best practises and recourses and advice and learning come from ? It's trust and laws and government and society. Crypto enthusiasts claim that these can be solved independently of any governing framework, but my point is that you can only solve it for a given blockchain, and anyone can create a blockchain, so what's the process by which any blockchain becomes the de-facto standard? And if your…

Unlike many crypto enthusiasts, I’ve never been allergic to the word governance or governing framework and have aimed to inspire on the forms it can take, even within national representative democracies.

Blockchains, distributed ledgers, allow for us to reevaluate what governance is and entails. It is expected that some processes of existing governments because redundant, and that there is some kind of governance occurring to coordinate behavior.

So here we are actually agreeing, except on where the best practices come from, which would be cypherpunk mailing lists, old bitcoin wikis, and protocol specification drafts and ratifications.

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#404

Post by d1lanka »

cormacrelf wrote: post #56
jolux wrote: post #9

All of the examples of having to trust the government in this article neglect the fact that trusting the government is not just trusting the government, and it’s not just the government storing a deed or giving you a Social Security Number that makes it real. It’s the whole complex web of laws and regulations that created these policies that make them real, and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively…

Democracy solves the Byzantine agreement problem just fine already. I like the aspects of decentralisation that help you preserve democracy, but beyond that it’s not necessary to replace every single aspect of a functioning democracy with a cryptographic commitment scheme. It would be worse if you did. That vision of society sounds terrible. (I can’t comment on this without noting that of all the interpretations of t…

> Democracy solves the Byzantine agreement problem just fine already.

Democracy is just two wolves and a lamb deciding on what's for dinner.

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#405

Post by Daishiman »

dTal wrote: post #194
derefr wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracy solves the Byzantine agreement problem just fine already. That’s nice when you and your counterparty are part of the same democracy, or potentially allied ones. But how do you enforce contracts when your government and their government are at war? (The governments say “you shouldn’t; they’re the enemy.” Well, screw the governments, I want to make positive-sum trades in the hopes of increasing global GDP a…

>The governments say “you shouldn’t; they’re the enemy.” Well, screw the governments, I want to make positive-sum trades in the hopes of increasing global GDP and ratcheting us up out of the need for wars over unevenly-distributed scarce resources in the first place. That's a real nice justification for war profiteering ya got there. I don't think it'll convince too many people though...

Nothing better than recording your illegal transactions in an immutable blockchain.

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#406

Post by landemva »

jolux wrote: post #9

All of the examples of having to trust the government in this article neglect the fact that trusting the government is not just trusting the government, and it’s not just the government storing a deed or giving you a Social Security Number that makes it real. It’s the whole complex web of laws and regulations that created these policies that make them real, and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively…

'giving you a Social Security Number'

Actually, you or your parents took action to apply for a SSN. No requirement to be American and have the mark. Once you take the mark, it is nearly impossible to undo it.

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#407

Post by coldtea »

jolux wrote: post #9

All of the examples of having to trust the government in this article neglect the fact that trusting the government is not just trusting the government, and it’s not just the government storing a deed or giving you a Social Security Number that makes it real. It’s the whole complex web of laws and regulations that created these policies that make them real, and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively…

>and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively decided

When did this happen?

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#408

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #407
jolux wrote: post #9

All of the examples of having to trust the government in this article neglect the fact that trusting the government is not just trusting the government, and it’s not just the government storing a deed or giving you a Social Security Number that makes it real. It’s the whole complex web of laws and regulations that created these policies that make them real, and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively…

> and the people (your fellow citizens) who have collectively decided When did this happen?

[deleted]

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#409

Post by iamwil »

tracyhenry wrote: post #3

> Once submitted, that “contract” will be carried out exactly as specified. It is observable to everyone, debuggable, and non-falsifiable. But a centralized database can also achieve this, right? The premise of the general public trusting a blockchain more than an established, centralized 3rd party (e.g. government) seems so feeble.

A centralized database is not observable by default. It’s usually not directly connected to the internet accessible by anyone.

Databases as they’re usually designed today are updated in-place so they have no provenance of the data.

Blockchain data one written will exist in the history and cannot be changed. Unless specifically designed this way centralized db doesn’t work this way.

Re: Is Web3 anything?

#410

Post by tracyhenry »

iamwil wrote: post #409
tracyhenry wrote: post #3

> Once submitted, that “contract” will be carried out exactly as specified. It is observable to everyone, debuggable, and non-falsifiable. But a centralized database can also achieve this, right? The premise of the general public trusting a blockchain more than an established, centralized 3rd party (e.g. government) seems so feeble.

A centralized database is not observable by default. It’s usually not directly connected to the internet accessible by anyone. Databases as they’re usually designed today are updated in-place so they have no provenance of the data. Blockchain data one written will exist in the history and cannot be changed. Unless specifically designed this way centralized db doesn’t work this way.

> no provenance of the data

This is hardly true. It's easy to keep a history of query logs, which is enough to figure out 90% of data lineage. The rest 10% probably correspond to operations not even runnable on a blockchain.

I can mock a web3 application by opening a database to the entire internet. All edits logs will be visible, although edits will be access controlled. Now I'll claim this is observable. Some people would probably complain. But how in the world is the general public going to complain?

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