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Web3? I have my DAOts

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Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#401

Post by ThomPete »

grey-area wrote: post #373
narrator wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I think driving Bitcoin is that all the other assets that can absorb billions of dollars in liquidity are throughly manipulated. A trillion dollars goes into Sovereign Debt. The government can issue endless sovereign debt to dilute that. A trillion dollars goes into the stock market. The companies on the stock market can issue tons and tons of new shares to dilute that. A trillion dollars goes into paper go…

all the other assets that can absorb billions of dollars in liquidity are throughly manipulated Bitcoin is thoroughly manipulated. Tether is minting a billion dollars a day now, with zero oversight and close ties to the major exchanges. Exchanges themselves have been found front running customers, running wash trades on their own coins etc etc. Fraud is rampant in this space and there is zero oversight from the norma…

Everything can be manipulated, but bitcoin compared to any other asset we know, is the only thing that cant be changed. You can create a new bitcoin but you cant create the same bitcoin and thats makes all the difference in the world.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#402

Post by lottin »

cesarb wrote: post #67
api wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An interesting possibility is that illegal content gets permanently inserted into a blockchain, which could make running, for example, an ethereum node very illegal. I've heard this called a "pee in the pool attack." Block chains like Ethereum and Bitcoin have one intrinsic defense: they don't support very large data objects. So that makes inserting CP problematic. But someone determined enough and willing to spend…

At least for Bitcoin, there's another defense: what the blockchain actually stores on each block is the root of a Merkle tree which has the transactions as leaves. It's possible to discard unwanted transactions, and that only loses the ability of verifying newer transactions which chain to these discarded transactions. (AFAIK, the original intention was that most nodes would discard old "spent" transactions, to reduc…

How do you verify new transactions without checking every single past transaction? As far as I understand, you need to know the current balance of every wallet in order to prevent double-spending.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#403

Post by chrisco255 »

daoismyname wrote: post #73
chrisco255 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you create a "web3" website, it's up to you how decentralized you want that experience to be. You could have your content hosted on Filecoin, perform computation on ICP or Arweave, provide IPFS hashes to your users using open standards (HTML, JSON, Markdown, etc) with simple export functionality, open source code, ENS domain, etc. If you take payments on your site via crypto, I'm not sure what you mean by "not acc…

Quoted post unavailable.

> and this is new, how?

The web is not decentralized today. We are routing vast majority of web traffic through a handful of monopolies that control all forms of monetization that don't involve crypto. Google + Facebook own the ad market. Paypal owns the payments market and where they aren't, VISA + MasterCard are used directly. We have seen deplatforming, censorship, antitrust behavior, price fixing, shadow banning, mass propaganda, sentiment manipulation, and more from these monopoly powers and some people are trying to make it better through novel monetization mechanisms that are open source, censorship resistant, decentralized, autonomous, and cryptographically verifiable. What's your big idea for dealing with the above?

>and that should tempt me, why?

Probably won't because snarky replies like that imply that you lack psychological openness and creativity.

>anyway, it's kinda required by the law that you don't sell everything to everybody..

No, it's not. It is perfectly okay to sell food to anyone. It's okay to sell clothes to anyone. It's okay to sell books to anyone, etc. For the vast majority of products and services, it is truly okay to sell to them without knowing anything about them. This is the de facto state of retail commerce.

>because you know, conversion rates are gonna be the last of your problem if you end up in jail.

I live in a western democracy with constitutional protection. It is perfectly okay to sell products and services to people without discriminating. In fact, discrimination is what gets you into legal trouble. Unless I'm selling firearms, pharmaceuticals, controlled substances, etc. it is really okay my dude.

>who's paying me for all this work I need to do?

When you create a self-owned endeavor, whether that be a lemonade stand or a personal web ecommerce store, you are the one who accepts the risk that you won't get paid. That's called a business my dude.

>using the same concept of uptime, google search has 100% uptime over the past 23 years...

No, it doesn't.

Meanwhile Google Search is closed source software for which you have absolutely no visibility into.

Google Search isn't a deterministic cryptographic computation engine. It's a manipulated, censored, monopoly-owned search engine that propels its own products and services to the top. It is designed to get you to click on paid ads. That's its purpose. Meanwhile your data, including intimate details about your personal life, is mined via AI and re-sold to the highest bidder.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#404

Post by ThomPete »

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

You can say the same about FIAT currencies too, but compared to Crypto i am forced to use them and they can be changed from within, Bitcoin cant.

I find the hesitance towards bitcoin and crypto extremely puritan in ways that nothing else can live up to.

Bitcoin have had several booms and busts. Each time it crashed it found a new higher floor. This has been going on for more than 12 years now.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#405

Post by G3rn0ti »

DangitBobby wrote: post #365
G3rn0ti wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am sympathetic with your argument, don’t forget you’re just comparing energy consumptions. We don’t know much about how its energy is being created. If 90% of Bitcoin’s energy use would be from renewables its CO2 footprint wouldn’t be 45x as large as that of Google. There was a study a couple of years ago suggesting Bitcoin’s global footprint is comparable to that of a medium sized city. But its assumptions a…

That green energy would have been used by someone else if BTC didn't use it. Put another way, if there had been one energy customer, X, instead of BTC + X, and availability of green energy was X + BTC/2, then fuelling BTC required generation of non-renewable energy.

That's not how markets work. Maybe on short term. If the demand for green energy is increasing due to Bitcoin, the production will also increase because it will drive profits of green energy producers.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#406

Post by keymone »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #280
siwatanejo wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For every winner, there has to be a loser. Completely agree with this sentence. Now, have you happened to frame this sentence in your head when talking about fiat money? Just wondering.

I’d rather get paid in dollars than in JSON metadata and JPGs of apes.

what about getting paid in BTC?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#407

Post by CJefferson »

bsnsmsksjs wrote: post #267
apatters wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say everyone on the planet is Ethereum enabled tomorrow. What is the business case for the winery to use it in your example? I get that Ethereum or any other crypto can be another payment option for their customers. Beyond that what use does a winery have for a programmable substrate underlying its transactions with customers or suppliers? I'm not saying there is none but if you're going to rip on HN users, fra…

I’ll bite. A winery could sell ownership of wine stored or wine yet to be made. The purchaser, if sold via an NFT, could resell that ownership with no interaction with the winery until claiming the wine at a later date. This means both parties no longer need any relationship between the initial sale and claiming the eventual goods. The winery will simply be able to wait for someone to return with proof of ownership a…

The problem with this type of thing (to me) is always what happens when reality meets the blockchain?

What is someone steals my NFT? I would expect a court would say the wine is still mine, so the NFT doesn't represent ownership any more.

What is someone loses the private key to their NFT? Do we just throw the wine down the drain? Again no.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#408

Post by keymone »

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

> Bitcoin is the scammers dream - remote, anonymous, irreversible transactions.

s/scammers//

also, not anonymous without huge effort and deep expertise.

exactly what money of the future is supposed to be.

want reversibility - build a company that offers it by taking on risk. want any other service that modern financial system provides - build it. doesn't have to be baked into the currency especially with all the destabilizing levers that come with those features.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#409

Post by jagermo »

So, what I don't understand: Why would companys use it? For example

"Twitter can censor any account or tweet" (its not censorship, but that is another can of worms). vs "Web3 tweets would be uncensorable".

Why should Twitter give up control? Why would they want someone to use their platform to publish stuff they can't delete or hide (for example, a live-stream of someone shooting up a mosque)?

Why would any of the big players get in bed with web3 content? they would be turned into a bitpipe?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#410

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

tata71 wrote: post #338
manwe150 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picasso paintings have possible positive cash flows via tax loopholes. So they don’t call it a Ponzi scheme because they do call it (legal) tax evasion. For example: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-do-rich-buy-art-divyanshu...

Tax evasion and avoidance are two different things.

this argument is frequently made to defend the shifting profits away from the edge (the supply side, and the retail side) and extract value from the middle (the tax haven¹).

Both are immoral but only one is illegal. One can do a double-Irish-Dutch sandwich and rat fuck both employees and suppliers all in the name of creating value for the shareholders. While employees piss into bottles the forward thinking CEO engages in union busting methods to prevent them from organizing. Legal or not, why not, if you can get away by stalling until a court decides and you settle (or purge the board from the toxic elements and restart what you do with a new CEO).

¹ Treasure Islands: Tax Havens and the Men who Stole the World: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands

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