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Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

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Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#401

Post by tentacleuno »

sneak wrote: post #325
fortran77 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"target them"? What are you proposing?

Refuse to hire them, like I do for Facebook, Microsoft, and Raytheon/Booz/etc staff. Blog about their names and the work they do and their employer, so anyone searching for them on Google knows that they are military-industrial complex scumbags.

> Blog about their names and the work they do and their employer, so anyone searching for them on Google knows that they are military-industrial complex scumbags.

I don't see how this is constructive. Some companies are actively seeking out people from SV companies, especially Google and Facebook.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#402

Post by tentacleuno »

sneak wrote: post #352
nier wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thought of any military being advanced due to Microsoft’s help made me giggle. My opinion is that the best you can do is to hire people with a similar set of core values and there’s nothing wrong with everybody having their own ethical scale that they act upon accordingly.

The US military runs on Microsoft. The slides that Snowden leaked were PowerPoints.

They most likely run on Microsoft because almost everyone knows how to use the operating system.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#404

Post by tentacleuno »

miohtama wrote: post #96
lehi wrote: post #15

Only curbing "abuse" implies that "normal use" of state-sponsored spyware remains kosher.

> Apple believes privacy is a fundamental human right, and security is a constant focus for teams across the company. This in the press release. It is missing the bit ”except in China.”

For the uninitiated: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/17/technology/ap...

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#405

Post by tentacleuno »

jjcon wrote: post #195
shmatt wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the many US government 3 letter agencies would love to have full read access to every single iPhone in the world. It doesn't mean Apple needs to comply, or that doing so without a search warrant is legal in California

>the many US government 3 letter agencies would love to have full read access to every single iPhone in the world They 100% already do

I would suggest doing some reading on AFU (After First Unlock) and BFU (Before First Unlock) unlocked states. In short, BFU is when you restart your phone without unlocking it: the decryption keys for the user storage are unknown until your credentials are entered. When your device is locked after a restart, you're in AFU mode where the decryption keys are stored in memory.

Devices such as Cellebrite use exploits to extrapolate the decryption key from memory, then use that key on the user storage. This is fundamentally how those tools work. If the device is in BFU, they can't collect nearly as much data.

TL;DR: if you're under threat of having your device taken from you, restart it!

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#407

Post by tentacleuno »

null_object wrote: post #141

Wow you have to be on HN to see Pegasus portrayed by some people as ‘the little guy’ fighting ‘evil’ Apple.

They're not just fighting Apple. What about the actual victims of the attack: journalists, etc.?

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#408

Post by ece »

Apple mentions PAC, PPL, and BlastDoor, and I'm left wondering if SELinux+JIT sanboxing on Android isn't better than all three combined. Though, I can't wait to see ARMv9/Intel CET processors and associated software being more widespread as well for CFI+W^X+Sandbox/Memory Encryption features.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#409

Post by evgen »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #227
TillE wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nerds always want to interpret the law in some strict pedantic fashion, but in practice this is almost never how it works. Law is not applied stupidly or mechanically, you can't fashion yourself some ad hoc workaround unless you're extremely certain about what you're doing, preferably with a mountain of precedent behind you.

Nerds always want the law to be consistent. Lawyers are Machiavellian professionals trained in getting it to say "heads I win tails you lose" for their clients, and often succeed. That doesn't mean the nerds are wrong to want what they want.

No, it is just that most nerds are too ignorant to understand how law works and its purpose and mechanisms. They expect it to be some sort of API spec that can be mechanically manipulated. Their own efforts at such intellectual mechanics are nothing but a trail of tears and failure, with bug after bug making a mockery of any claim they have about the benefits of such a system. Law has had millennia to work out the kinks in the system and develop practices that are robust in the face of adversarial attack by actual smart people; coders can't seem to keep basic services operating in ideal conditions and yet you expect anyone to look to this group when it comes to actual life and death decisions? Hard pass.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#410

Post by lozenge »

SubjectToChange wrote: post #279
technobabbler wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond merely selling their products to Israel, the NSO Group itself is an Israeli firm, founded by ex-Israeli intelligence, and whose products are subject to Israeli national export controls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSO_Group That's a level of sponsorship way beyond simply being a customer... that's state espionage served with a side of profit. It's evil when the USA does it, it's evil when the Russians do it,…

the NSO Group itself is an Israeli firm, founded by ex-Israeli intelligence, and whose products are subject to Israeli national export controls. All this means is that the NSO Group is an Israeli company staffed by Israeli citizens. I don't know what export controls have to do with anything since those apply categories of products, regardless of whether or not you have business with the Israeli government.

Export controls of weapons, not simply customs laws. Every NSO group contract needs Israeli government approval similar to how Lockheed Martin cannot simply sell weapons to any country.
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