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The latest campus cancellation is different

theatlantic.com

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Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#401

Post by ZeroGravitas »

googlryas wrote: post #391

Can anyone tell me the problem the mob has with the MFE framework vs AA? Is it just coming from the wrong person? Is racism so bad in America that it is worse to be the black son of two wealthy Ivy educated lawyers, who attends private schools in NY, versus a white son with one parent in jail and the other addicted to meth in the backwaters of West Virginia who sometimes attends a broken public school when he isn't r…

I'm not sure that you understand the MFE framework proposal.

How do you think it's going to help in your example? It'll clearly favor the black kid in this hypothetical case, because he's rich and well connected. The white kid might have made it in on a sports scholarship maybe, but even that slim hope will be ripped away from him under this proposal.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#402

Post by geeB »

leephillips wrote: post #162
civilized wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The letter you link is quite clear: MIT doesn't want to hold a scientist up as a role model if progressive activists dislike him. This wouldn't have happened at University of Chicago.

Your comment is a partial answer to a question I have: are there any universities with any prestige who still, today, uphold the principles of free expression and academic freedom? I thought MIT might still have some institutional self-respect, and am saddened to find out that it does not. Who’s left (in addition to U. of Chicago)?

This fits MIT's historical pattern of buckling under external pressure, like what happened to Aaron Swartz or Star Simpson. Different this time because of the cancel mob aspect, but not too surprising.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#403

Post by abacadaba »

umvi wrote: post #3

How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.

Hold twitter accountable for harm caused by their 'trending' algorithm?

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#405

Post by morelisp »

rscoots wrote: post #395
morelisp wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll admit that the category of 'anyone who has compared mainstream American politics to Nazism in a published article' is a pretty wide net though? No, I won't. "Published an article in a national periodical about mainstream American politics at all " is already a really small net! "Did it in the past two months" vanishingly less so! "And is giving a PR speech for their university" and I bet we're down to popula…

You seem to be adding in additional, somewhat frivolous conditions that none of the parties involved even alluded to. So yes that might drive down the number to a conveniently hard-to-research amount. Let's start with your "2 months" figure. Who cited that as part of the reason for the disinvitation?

The timeframe and forum makes it fair to characterize this as his current, considered, strongly-held opinion. That has bearing on whether we consider this a situation of "we disinvited him because we don't want our PR handled by people currently advancing opinions contra political sensitive aspects of our university admissions policy" vs. "we disinvite everyone who made a cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich" (Mounk's characterization).

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#406

Post by ng12 »

freebreakfast wrote: post #307
motohagiography wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pervasive lack of backbone among individuals in institutions is key to this. The shunning and shaming tactics used by online mobs are a very particular form of human aggression. Speculating on a correlating factor among the people in these institutions who seem so consistently vulnerable to it may be itself, problematic, but it's as though the organizations are missing anyone with the instinct to challenge or defle…

The most memorable example of "lack of backbone" for myself was Evergreen State College president, George Bridges. There was a large protest in 2017. The administration met to discuss the situation. Students prevented the administrators from leaving the meeting room unless they had an escort to ensure the administrators came to a resolution. The president mentioned his need to use the restroom to one of the protest l…

It's shocking, really. The blood-and-guts types are a dying breed, unfortunately.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#407

Post by josteink »

voakbasda wrote: post #346
coldtea wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Ignore their demands (as an enterprise, business, institution, government, etc.), mock and derise their members (as a society), and stop publicizing them (as media).

So, we deplatform them? Tit for tat.

They can have the platform. We just don’t need to care about it.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#408

Post by zeckalpha »

AwaAwa wrote: post #91
zeckalpha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the Paradox of Intolerance. Who cancels the cancellers? It’s almost as though we should reserve cancellation for those seeking to exclude people from society.

Is there a paradox in 'intolerance'? Or do you mean the 'paradox of tolerance'?

I do not.

The Paradox of Intolerance is expecting that you get to be intolerant of others while not expecting others to be intolerant of you.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#409

Post by rscoots »

morelisp wrote: post #405
rscoots wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be adding in additional, somewhat frivolous conditions that none of the parties involved even alluded to. So yes that might drive down the number to a conveniently hard-to-research amount. Let's start with your "2 months" figure. Who cited that as part of the reason for the disinvitation?

The timeframe and forum makes it fair to characterize this as his current, considered, strongly-held opinion. That has bearing on whether we consider this a situation of "we disinvited him because we don't want our PR handled by people currently advancing opinions contra political sensitive aspects of our university admissions policy" vs. "we disinvite everyone who made a cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich" (Mou…

That's what you think, but I'm asking who at MIT has taken that position re timeframe that you have evidence of?

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#410

Post by morelisp »

rscoots wrote: post #409
morelisp wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timeframe and forum makes it fair to characterize this as his current, considered, strongly-held opinion. That has bearing on whether we consider this a situation of "we disinvited him because we don't want our PR handled by people currently advancing opinions contra political sensitive aspects of our university admissions policy" vs. "we disinvite everyone who made a cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich" (Mou…

That's what you think, but I'm asking who at MIT has taken that position re timeframe that you have evidence of?

You have moved the goalposts immensely from "is Mounk's conclusion about Nazi comparisons accurate?" to "do you have proof from the horses's mouth that MIT would not have done this had he written this 5 years ago?"
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