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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#401

Post by rootusrootus »

zacharytelschow wrote: post #383
pornel wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the deal: you don't have to take the vaccine, but promise to stay away from people, and not burden hospitals when you get covid. It's not your personal choice when it can harm other people (e.g. immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine themselves, other people who need ICU beds).

Let's apply that logic to everything, then, and see how it works out. You're fat or obese and have health outcomes stemming from those choices? Enjoy your heart attack, fatty. You get injured doing something "non-essential?" Your mountain bike accident sounds like your problem. You're a smoker and get lung cancer? Sorry, no treatment is available for you. You don't get to dictate the health choices of others. And if…

I don't support denying healthcare based on choices. But I heard that some hospitals in Texas have started using it during triage. And there is certainly precedent for that. E.g. try getting a transplant if you are still engaging in the behavior that caused you to need one in the first place. So if a hospital has only one bed available and two people to take it, one of whom is vaccinated experiencing a severe breakthrough case, and another is someone who chose not to get vaccinated, the hospital has to make a choice on who is most likely to survive.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#402

Post by Cd00d »

mlang23 wrote: post #220
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

The vaccination is still not mandatory, right? Why do you write "excuse"? Are you really so full of yourself that you can not accept that people make different decisions from yours? Why do you even care? I assume you got the vaccine for yourself. So what is the issue? Why do you have to speak about your fellow humans in such a derogatory tone?

I care, and this is an issue because I have children under 12 and immunocompromised people in my household.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#403

Post by zthrowaway »

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

It will happen like clockwork. And once we get more subsequent variants with the current vaccine not working and requiring a booster, the perceived failure of the vaccine will be blamed on Trump with Operation Warp Speed.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#404

Post by pornel »

zacharytelschow wrote: post #383
pornel wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the deal: you don't have to take the vaccine, but promise to stay away from people, and not burden hospitals when you get covid. It's not your personal choice when it can harm other people (e.g. immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine themselves, other people who need ICU beds).

Let's apply that logic to everything, then, and see how it works out. You're fat or obese and have health outcomes stemming from those choices? Enjoy your heart attack, fatty. You get injured doing something "non-essential?" Your mountain bike accident sounds like your problem. You're a smoker and get lung cancer? Sorry, no treatment is available for you. You don't get to dictate the health choices of others. And if…

Smoking is already banned in places where it can give other people lung cancer. Cycling and driving is also regulated to reduce risk to other road users and pedestrians.

Putting lives of other people at risk is not your "health choice".

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#405

Post by MandolinOrange »

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

Many medical professionals have been decrying the lack of transparency throughout the entire process and that still hasn't changed:

"FDA set to grant full approval to Pfizer vaccine without public discussion of data": https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2086?s=09

Expecting the public to have confidence in these vaccines is demanding a level of subservience and blind faith that most reasonable people are unwilling to provide.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#406

Post by [deleted] »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221
version_five wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. No doubt this will be the case for some. So, you've found a logical flaw in people's stated reasons for not wanting a vaccine. How does that help anything? In these kinds of debates, the actual goals or beliefs of both sides often differ from what they say. For example, the government being able…

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

[deleted]

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#407

Post by xyzzyz »

lostcolony wrote: post #373
antattack wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unamerican to force people to do something. However, smokers, for example, pay higher insurance premiums and alcohol is taxed higher.

The Supreme Court disagrees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

This Supreme Court decision only ruled that it is legal to give a minor fine for not getting a vaccine, not that it is legal to forcibly vaccinate people.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#408

Post by learc83 »

cies wrote: post #318
mr_mitm wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my understanding that simply waiting for a longer time would not have helped. This side effect did not come much later after the vaccination, but only in very rare cases, which is why it took some time to notice it. Considering how many people we vaccinated with the Covid vaccines, we should have seen (and have seen, with myocarditis, trombosis) such rare side effects. Plus, it is likely that the disease itself…

Side-effects may develop only after a while: a good reason for longer trials.

There has never been a vaccine that was recalled because of side effects that didn't show up until over a year later.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#409

Post by menduza23 »

seoaeu wrote: post #372
cies wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's stories like this --gov't makes out of court settlements and vaccine retracted-- that give a lot of credibility to those against/ hesitant towards vaccination. I'm in a low-risk group and see no use in getting vaccinated, especially since herd immunity is off the table and nearby ICUs are not overflowing. The media/pharma/politicians/bigtech are all passing out the same message: get the vaccine. Non of them high…

Because in places where lots of people think like you, the ICUs are overflowing? I also think you underestimate how ANGRY people are that they spent 18 months in lockdown, only to have some anti-vaxers mess things up at the end. By this point, we shouldn't be talking about which areas do/don't have overflowing ICUs, we should be talking about which areas have hit milestones for number of days without a positive case!

What makes those angry people who have been in lockdown for so long think that taking the vaccine will allow us go back to normal? See these articles: https://www.timesofisrael.com/tv-14-israelis-who-got-3rd-sho... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-21/science-c...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#410

Post by lovecg »

seriousquestion wrote: post #344
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

You don't even have to imagine. Kamala Harris: "But if Donald Trump tells us to take it, I’m not taking it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dAjCeMuXR0 The same thing was broadly expressed on twitter at the time too, she was far from alone in that sentiment.

Why did you omit the first part of the quote? “If the public health professionals … tell me to take I will absolutely take it. But if Donald Trump tells us to take it, I’m not taking it.”

I think this is a reasonable message of caution when talking about someone pushing HCQ and drinking bleach on the daily.

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