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South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

nationalinterest.org

401–410 of 444 posts

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is immigration but with high barrier to entry. I live in Denmark, a country portrayed as anti-immigrant by American and British media. However there is no opposition to educated professional immigrants from India, China, Iran and Eastern Europe. Brain drain of these countries could be a problem but countries like India and Iran are probably producing many more highly educated individuals than they can do…

You cant just easily immigrate to CJK countries.You will not become a part of the society.That's just impossible.Not even those of us that married koreans,speak the language and know the customs are that accepted in the society.We are tolerated and easily live and work there but you will never become korean or japanese or chinese. You will always be the "foreigner".

I don't know man, I beg to differ. I am a non-ethnic, naturalized Korean who immigrated to Korea fairly young. I am fully assimilated (note that I am not saying integrated, but assimilated; this is critical) and part of society, I feel I have an equal opportunity at doing anything a "native" Korean would do. I could run for politics if I wanted to (which I am considering), my relationship with people are as normal as they could be. I don't feel "tolerated" nor "accepted", nor have I ever felt the need to. People basically treat me the same as they would treat any other Korean.

Sure, there is some minor "friction" because of my different ethnicity (basically I look white), such as random people first assuming that I am a foreigner, which is completely understandable for historical reasons. I do that myself, whenever I see a white or black person, my first reflex isn't to assume that they are Korean too, there is a 99% chance that they are foreigners. But all it takes is a 10mn conversation for them to know that I am "one of them". I sometimes get puzzled looks from people who have never met someone like me, but that's mainly because most of the population don't even know you _could_ naturalize and become Korean. At the airport, the staff speaks in English to me at first, but as soon as they see my passport they profusely apologize and switch back to "Korean" mode. That's about it.

I do however understand and sympathize with the fact that many foreigners, even long-term residents, might feel the way you described. I am just disputing your claim that it's "impossible" to become Korean.

I personally think because Korean society functions in a very binary way: either you accept everything and take it in as a whole and then can become a member of society, or you just do a few things (such as marrying a Korean person, speaking Korean to a certain level, etc.) and you don't. There are valid reasons to act like that, there is this instinct of jealously preserving Korean culture out of fear that it will be taken over by other giants: China, Japan, the US, etc. And Koreans would rather keep the bad aspects of their culture than risk losing it all. It's just part of the deal, and I think many foreigners have a hard time understanding/accepting this fact.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it mostly has to do with access to convenient birth control, like IUDs and birth control pills. Give poor women education and access to those, and even poorer countries will see similar declines in birth rate. I think humanity’s growth was dependent on women not having a say in the matter. All the situations I see where women have gained the ability to easily choose whether or not to have kids lead to lower b…

I remember seeing a study which followed the spread of TV across Brazil and the decline in birth rate. It was the soaps wot dun it. Seeing new role models who had interesting lives, and especially learning that it was possible to withstand pressure from grandparents to have children seemed to be more important than mere availability of contraceptives or education. IIRC there was a similar effect in Bangladesh, but it…

For anyone curious, this seems to be the study: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.4.4.1

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. More elderly welfare programs discourage family formation. Anytime I mention this, people think I'm nuts, but you seem to have come to the conclusion on your own.

I imagine I am not the only one who would rather suicide rather than becoming dependent on others. I certainly do not want my kids to spend their time looking after me if I am chronically unable to take care of myself.

And this gets to the core of the nihilistic social rot at the core of so much wrong in society today.

We hesitate at being dependent on others or having others help us. In the us, no matter your political side, the idea of finding meaning only through service to others is not only in short supply it's actively demonized.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#404
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing a study which followed the spread of TV across Brazil and the decline in birth rate. It was the soaps wot dun it. Seeing new role models who had interesting lives, and especially learning that it was possible to withstand pressure from grandparents to have children seemed to be more important than mere availability of contraceptives or education. IIRC there was a similar effect in Bangladesh, but it…

For anyone curious, this seems to be the study: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.4.4.1

Yes, that was it. Thanks! I recall reading about it on an economics blog, which mentioned Bangladesh also. That (Bangladesh) must have been a different study.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cant just easily immigrate to CJK countries.You will not become a part of the society.That's just impossible.Not even those of us that married koreans,speak the language and know the customs are that accepted in the society.We are tolerated and easily live and work there but you will never become korean or japanese or chinese. You will always be the "foreigner".

I don't know man, I beg to differ. I am a non-ethnic, naturalized Korean who immigrated to Korea fairly young. I am fully assimilated (note that I am not saying integrated, but assimilated; this is critical) and part of society, I feel I have an equal opportunity at doing anything a "native" Korean would do. I could run for politics if I wanted to (which I am considering), my relationship with people are as normal as…

Your life sounds really interesting. If you've written more about it somewhere, I'd love to read it.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US def has a labor shortage if it wants to stay globally competitive in some sectors. Americans will either buy strawberries from immigrants on agricultural visas, they will buy strawberries overseas or they won’t buy strawberries. There is no scenario where they buy strawberries picked by people making $30/hr. The US tech sector can pay every software engineer 300k starting salary but at some point you’re comple…

Since you mentioned strawberries, Driscolls, the U.S. berry giant, a) actually yields most of its strawberries from Mexico, and b) is poised to increase automation even further. Have a look at the careers page here and take note of what they're seeking in the U.S. proper - https://www.driscolls.com/about/careers > There is no scenario where they buy strawberries picked by people making $30/hr. You're presenting a fal…

>>Notwithstanding skill, because immigration isn't just about low-skilled workers (Canada doesn't prioritize it for instance), high supply of workers is lobbied for on the part of companies in order to suppress wages.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment but Canada does prioritize high(er)-skilled immgrants over low-skilled immigrants as per the Canadian Federal Skilled Workers points system used to score potential immigrants applying to enter the country on a long-term basis.

[1] https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#407
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Currently the poorest parts of the US population are stagnating at best, at a time when rates of both legal and illegal immigration are quite high. It is hard to make the argument that immigration is preventing things from getting worse. An argument that immigration is a net positive for the economy: https://www.thebalance.com/how-immigration-impacts-the-econo... Some anecdotes of small towns being saved by immigra…

> Some anecdotes of small towns being saved by immigration Why would saving small towns in general be a value? The US has desperately needed vast consolidation of small population centers and increased population density toward greater urbanization, for many decades. One of the worst attributes of the US is its over-sprawl and weak development of public transportation. The ideal would be to eliminate thousands upon t…

Small towns not connected to big cities are shrinking unceasingly, unless there is some special local thing to save them, like a special factory or a tourist attraction. In my part of the south almost every town had their downtown destroyed first by walmart, and then later by the ecosystem of small businesses all withered away and now the downtowns of places with a few thousand people have almost nothing but a grocery store and gas station. On top of the young people move out of all of these towns looking for work. It's got to be incredibly sad for older people to see their world just disappearing, which is think is part of the appeal of certain nationalist politicians.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see how American cities deal with large scale immigration. SF got maybe 10k people on its streets and there is already talk about martial law and forcefully mopping people into rehabs. What would SF do with 1 million people on its streets? Athens and other cities managed... Greece does not have a shit economy, we do relatively well. There are simply not enough jobs. US is the same. Show me an entry le…

Do you mean like NYC? Literally the city built on large scale immigration? Also the state of California. Houston, Texas is the most diverse city in the country and you can buy a house for less than the national average. There are hundreds of millions of people in the US who own homes and raise families on entry level jobs, the just don't live in high cost of living areas. That's not to say their lives are all perfect…

》but take a walk around pretty much any American urban metro area and it’s working amazingly well.

I choosed SF bcos you wrote this. NY etc have similar problem. Modern US cities are not capable to accept and absorb large scale immigration of people who are not already integrated into society. People who do not speak local language and have very different culture.

Martial law was suggested as a way to force homeless into shelters and rehabs. SF gets around 700 people per year, and it already abandoned basic humanitarian principles. Look at recent Louis Rossmann video, this mishandling is systemic problem in US: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8WGjCeFyr1g&pp=sAQA

》USA is amazing at assimilating immigrants

I disagree with that. I will leave it here.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#409
post #367
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorta surprised by your statement. I've lived in Seoul, Tokyo, and NYC for various periods of my life and I'd definitely say Tokyo feels the most "modern" when you scratch beneath the surface. For example, I'd say the basic subway system between Seoul and Tokyo are pretty similar but you also have the advantage of a vastly superior rail network that serves Greater Tokyo and the rest of Japan. KTX and SRT in Korea…

I think there are pros/cons of car culture and systems in both countries. Japan's car-ownership experience is rather hostile. Expensive tolls, Shaken inspection, and higher price tags than SK. In a way, this benefits tourists because streets are cleaner, cars are newer, and people tend to drive less. In Korea, it's flipped. It's great place for car ownership. But from tourists POV, it's chaos. As much as I love Japan…

Almost everywhere in Japan is accessible without a car. Car-ownership doesn't make sense for most people.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#410
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to China, one solution is to kill after school for-profit education, which is crippling families due to unbounded competition.

Isn't the Chinese solution just to convert these for-profit education companies to non-profit education companies? That only hurts these companies and their shareholders. Parents who want their children to be competitive will continue to enroll their children in these after-school classes; now that they are non-profit perhaps they will be cheaper and parents can afford more classes!

In addition to what you said, this policy is supposed to alleviate a complementary problem for kids in the top 1-20% socioeconomic class. There, the biggest issue is that there is excessive competition to no good end. This policy is supposed to alleviate that and bring more room for fostering creativity
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