Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#401

Post by chalst » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #139

MattGaiser wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about unemployment. There is no such thing as an unemployment problem in an economy, just workers who want too much and think too highly of their skills.

That's one of the problems with minimum wage laws: they prevent the labor market from clearing. Some people want to work but due to lack of skills their labor is worth less than the minimum and thus no employer will hire them. I understand that people can't live on less than the minimum wage. But the solution to that is a proper social safety net, not imposing arbitrary minimum wage limits.

The relationship between minimum wage and employment is profoundly complex and the empirical data is inconsistent with the simple supply and demand model many believe in. There are many documented cases of increases in minimum wage resulting in reduced unemployment.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#402

Post by atrettel » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

cwbrandsma wrote: post #297

atrettel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a mechanical engineer and I believe I can answer your first question. My take is that many engineering employers value the ability of entry-level employees to learn new things rather than what they know (their expertise). They want blank slates many times, to be honest, to be molded into the kind of employee that they need at the moment. As long as you have the most basic relevant engineering knowledge and a degr…

I've been hiring a lot lately (software development), two senior level positions (5 years or more experience) and one mid, three hires so far, two more roles to fill. These are all remote positions in a full remote team. Just be living the continental USA. For the senior level positions we had maybe 10 applicants. Only two met the requirements (5 years experience with Asp.Net and C#, and be able to legally work in th…

Thank you for giving an employer's perspective here. I can see how finding qualified applicants can be difficult, and I hope you find qualified people for your other open positions. Nonetheless, I think the hiring process you describe could be improved. As I had stated in my previous comment, it might be helpful to consider whether an applicant can do the work rather than just whether they have done the work before. I admit that is difficult to gauge, but that perspective may help you see more potential applicants.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#403

Post by fundad » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #203

agumonkey wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's only partially true, as a company you have infinitely more leverage in society than an individual you weigh more, you're worth more, it doesn't last forever but the difference is staggering

You also have product to sell/deliver, and no unemployment benefits. Many, many businesses have failed during the current plague situation... maybe not amazon and walmart, but a lot of small and middle sized businesses.

The business owner can close up and file for unemployment if that pays more than they’d make paying prevailing wages.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#404

Post by throwawayboise » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #390

mgkimsal wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's still an issue of consistency. if you can get "regular" hours... say, 6am-11am, M-T-W-Th, for example, you can schedule your life around it. 30 years ago, I managed a Burger King, and even then, they had us send people home if it got really slow, or.. call up people and cancel their shift an hour before, because of bad weather, etc. Someone's already arranged childcare or transportation for their shift, then…

One of my dream labor reforms would be something like classifying any shifts that aren't scheduled at least two weeks in advance as overtime. It won't guarantee a steady number of hours but it will definitely help smooth things out and allow better planning.

Will you also commit to buying a Big Mac and Fries between 12:00 and 1:00pm on Tuesday two weeks hence?

Also, I used to manage a McDonalds. Paying a bonus to have people come in on short notice to cover no-shows, sick calls, or unexpected business volume was not uncommon.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#405

Post by gruez » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

ubercow13 wrote: post #261

bko wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a market economy there is no such thing as a "shortage" of workers. You just don't want to meet the market price of the workers with that skill set. You could imagine a widget factory whose economics rely on paying employees X, it doesn't mean there's a "shortage" of workers, but the workers demand a wage that makes your work unprofitable. The fact is a lot of people are paid not to work through generous covid-rel…

Using this logic, in a market economy there can never be a shortage of anything.

Yep, no housing shortage, just millennials who "don't want to meet the market price"!

/s

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#406

Post by granshaw » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #296

rantwasp wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans haven’t literally evolved that much in 200 years. You’re being generous. I would say we haven’t evolved in thousands of years. I mean sure, the tech is better but we’re the same self absorbed, careless bipeds we’ve always been.

> I would say we haven’t evolved in thousands of years. We’ve become slightly more lactose-tolerant!

And with bowels 300% more irritable!

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#407

Post by fundad » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

okareaman wrote: post #178

When these articles are about the US they never mention the brutal policies of ICE (Immigration Control and Enforcement) which discourage seasonal workers from Mexico, who are already hesitant due to the pandemic. I mean, if you're going to deport Mexicans who served honorably in the military it's a big FU to Mexicans. I wouldn't come here either.

Yeah and letting ICE run wild was supposed to make labor more scarce and more valuable.

Thank immigration hawks for the wage inflation they promised.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#408

Post by e12e » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #390

mgkimsal wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's still an issue of consistency. if you can get "regular" hours... say, 6am-11am, M-T-W-Th, for example, you can schedule your life around it. 30 years ago, I managed a Burger King, and even then, they had us send people home if it got really slow, or.. call up people and cancel their shift an hour before, because of bad weather, etc. Someone's already arranged childcare or transportation for their shift, then…

One of my dream labor reforms would be something like classifying any shifts that aren't scheduled at least two weeks in advance as overtime. It won't guarantee a steady number of hours but it will definitely help smooth things out and allow better planning.

That is essentially the law in Norway - the work schedule need to be posted minimum two weeks in advance - and extra shifts should generally be considered overtime. Unfortunately it's probably one of the regulations that are most frequently broken.

Norwegian link: https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/regelverk/lover/arbeidsmiljol...

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#409

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #404

Dylan16807 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my dream labor reforms would be something like classifying any shifts that aren't scheduled at least two weeks in advance as overtime. It won't guarantee a steady number of hours but it will definitely help smooth things out and allow better planning.

Will you also commit to buying a Big Mac and Fries between 12:00 and 1:00pm on Tuesday two weeks hence? Also, I used to manage a McDonalds. Paying a bonus to have people come in on short notice to cover no-shows, sick calls, or unexpected business volume was not uncommon.

That's a nice idea (short-notice bonus). 30 years ago, no one had cell phones, so even trying to get ahold of someone on 'short notice' wasn't really possible. But it would have been a nice gesture to balance out the times we'd send people home early.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#410

Post by rossdavidh » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #264

rossdavidh wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many families, summers are typically full of "summer camps" that are actually "themed daycare for older kids". Those were mostly closed as well during the pandemic lockdown phase, and some still haven't come back (in the US, anyway).

What rich bubble do you live in where kids go to summer camp?

Well in most cases losing one of two incomes in the household costs a lot more. In the US, anyway, it is a lot more common to have a stay-at-home mom in the upper incomes; the working class is mostly every-adult-must-get-a-job (or two or three). Occasionally there are grandparents available, but in some cases they're in another town, and in some cases they are deceased. Summer "camps" are definitely not a rich thing (in the US, anyway).