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Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

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Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#401

Post by ohashi »

deregulateMed wrote: post #229
janjones wrote: post #193

Here is a technical report about the exploits: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/07/forensic-...

Holy shit, there's literally a dozen of Apple products exploited. It's not a single "Apple music exploit", it's dozens of separate services. Music, messenger, safari, iOS, etc... I never want to hear Apple cares about security again. I could forgive 1 mistake, but this seems like negligence. (Don't put me down as a defender of MS or Android, but at least they don't use "Security" in their marketing)

That seems dramatic. It's a billion dollar ex-spy run company catering towards governments with seemingly no ethics. No offense to Apple but this is near state level actor as a threat and with enough motivation ($$$$$$$$) they will find ways to exploit Apple's software no matter what.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#402

Post by yyyk »

himinlomax wrote: post #148
joelbluminator wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hungary aside, most of Israel's allies in the region are dictatorships, actaully all of them: Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Morocco (arguably, let's agree it's not a liberal democracy) and so on and so on. There are zero democracies in the area. So it's easy to see Israel's interest in supplying technology to those regimes and assuring good relations; it's not like the oppositions to these dictators are any bette…

> There are zero democracies in the area Lebanon used to be more democratic; Iran was democratic at one point. What happened to Mossadegh?

>Lebanon used to be more democratic.

Lebanon used to be a state. More democratic? Perhaps.

>What happened to Mossadegh?

One of the first things Mossadegh did was to suspend elections because the opposition was winning too much.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#403

Post by joelbluminator »

andrepd wrote: post #389
joelbluminator wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert on the history of Iran, but no, it doesn't seem it ever was (Most countries in the region ever were or are one now). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Imperial_S... "The reign of Reza Shah was totalitarian and dictatorial at a time when totalitarian governments and dictatorships were common in the Middle East and the world[8] and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was some years i…

For the 3rd time, I'm talking about the regime that was overthrown to put in the Shah Reza Pahlavi...

You could be right, I will read up on that. But again, you are pointing to a very specific point in history, that was an exception to the rule.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#404

Post by rsynnott »

bogomipz wrote: post #350
underscore_ku wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is as helpless as USA. what would US of A do with a rogue Texas? nothing

You might want to look up the American Civil War. It lasted from 1861 to 1865 and some 600K people died. That's what happened the last time any states threatened to secede from the Union in the US of A. It's also a pretty well-known bit of history.

That was about secession, though, not misbehavior. In fact, arguably it proves the point; after the US civil war there was a period of 'reconstruction', which largely failed, and then the southern states carried on doing pretty much whatever they felt like for the next century.

EDIT: As mentioned below, desire to misbehave was certainly at the root of the secession, but in practice even after the war was won the federal government wasn't able to impose its will particularly effectively.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#405

Post by jq-r »

tester34 wrote: post #194
saiya-jin wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of bullcrap to be polite. I hear this from various eastern far right wing supporters quite a bit, and it isn't based on any facts, just some wishful thinking. Hungary is a net receiver of direct money subsidies. The fact is most of it is stolen by government-aligned forces within economy, this is a well-oiled machine in place for a long time. Western companies come to Hungary because its cheap force, desp…

>Eastern Europe, like many other poor places in the world, is depleted of human capital because its simply such a crappy place to live. What makes you think that it's crappy place to live (e.g Poland)? except politics

Because unless you're rich, you're not living, you're surviving. And those are vastly different things.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#406

Post by trasz »

tester34 wrote: post #384
trasz wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from economy, healthcare, pensions, schooling, and law enforcement? :-) Food's good, though.

I do agree that higher edu institutions tend to be mehh unless you attend country's top, but law enforcement? what do you mean? fighting corruption?

Poland's top universities - both of them - are at the very end of international rankings. As for law enforcement - it's just horribly ineffective. A trivial open and shut software piracy case can last a decade.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#407

Post by gypsyharlot »

When you don't do the EU's bidding, their propaganda machinery will work so hard that even Goebbels would be impressed. Then comes the sanctions and other bullying approaches to force your ways. God I hope more countries follow the UK and leave the world's fattest bureaucracy.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#408

Post by carschno »

lloydjones wrote: post #217
roenxi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. I'm going to point at this as an example of a very traditional, very political example unproductive thinking. One of the lessons people refuse to see in politics is that the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something. There is a lack of reflection on how…

I'm not sure I agree. In the UK, the lower middle class are (to generalise) materially well-off; they own their own homes, they have a couple of cars, they have large televisions, one partner does not have to work, etc. And through pure boredom/decadence, they were radicalised through years of negative messaging from the populist press into 'caring' about things like Brexit, immigration, welfare claimants, etc. These…

We have seen an enormous disintegration of social stability in many European countries, if not most. Those parts of the middle class that have not been affected by materially are right to fear they will be. This economic development has been a consequence of the politics of the past decades which have been dominated by austerity, general redistribution of wealth towards the top, and accompanying measures against democratic structures that can include free press, independent justice, marginalization of workers unions etc. Especially more radical parties of that sort like Orban have driven these classical liberal economic developments; mind the hypocrisy in their "illiberalism" claims.

Every other topic that has emotional potential can serve as a scapegoat for distraction ("we have to fight the common enemy first, then we can care about the poor"): immigrants, the EU, Jewish/Marxist conspiracies, homosexuals etc. It does not _necessarily_ mean that there are no problems related to other topics (e.g. EU bureaucracy etc.), but that is hardly relevant in these cases. You see this playbook in many countries inside and outside of Europe (e.g. Brazil, USA, UK, Russia, Poland, Slovenia, Turkey, ...).

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#409

Post by trasz »

krzyk wrote: post #374
trasz wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland, welfare? :-D As for neoliberalism: in Poland the usual way of employment, called "umowa o dzieło", gives the employee pretty much no rights whatsoever. It's almost as bad as in the US in that matter, and not comparable at all to Western Europe.

I have never worked using that "way", always the normal one. What you describe is used by firms that you can smell a mile away and don't even try to work there. I'm sure western Europe has similar companies that abuse employer rights.

In the field of software development, in Poland, this is the normal one.

Also, note that this is not an abuse of employer's rights: that's precisely how "umowa o dzieło" is supposed to work. That's one example of prevalent neoliberalism.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#410

Post by rsynnott »

reader_mode wrote: post #107
_hzrk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with the EU handling of COVID crisis? We have vaccinated more people than the US and there was no major breakout since summer 2020. In constrast with the UK where restrictions have been draconic.

EU botched acquiring vaccine compares to most developed countries by months, in no small part due to the retarded mindset that pharma companies shouldn't profit off of this and trying to renegotiate prices forever (overriding some countries who tried to acquire it individually and would have gotten it faster). Measures were not dictated by EU, each country decided it's own policy.

> EU botched acquiring vaccine compares to most developed countries by months, in no small part due to the retarded mindset that pharma companies shouldn't profit off of this and trying to renegotiate prices forever

Eh, that's a dubious narrative. In practice, Europe made an at the time fairly reasonable-looking bet on the wrong horse; significant production problems were expected with mRNA vaccines, while no-one really expected big problems with viral vector vaccines.

As it turned out, mRNA production went amazingly smoothly (to the point that overdelivery by Pfizer/Biontec largely saved the EU programme) while viral vector production was a _disaster_. If AZ and J&J had been able to deliver what they planned, or even modestly underdeliver, the issue of contracts would not have arisen.

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