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The collapse of the IRON stable coin

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401–410 of 502 posts

Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#401
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strange statement. It's like saying that a forloop isn't authoritative because it hasn't been approved by a court. "Legal authority" isn't a well-defined object in the evaluation of smart contracts. It is certainly not an authority in the sense that the EVM (or, for other blockchains, corresponding VM) code is. Is this really a surprise? Nodes don't evaluate common law, they evaluate smart contracts. That's…

>Not everyone believes in the legitimacy of the state, let alone that the legal system is somehow the proper authority for evaluation of disambigous source code. This is something that I haven't been able to figure out about blockchain enthusiasts. Assuming the blockchain is wildly successful, it poses an inherent threat to the ability of the modern state to collect taxes. Why do blockchain enthusiasts, who already d…

The key thing here is that nobody can force you to pay your taxes. If you refuse to pay you can be arrested and/or go to jail but the change here is that you can't force someone to give you money but you can compel them to.

I like to see cryptocurrency and crypto-assets as a pseudo force of nature. It's not really possible for governments to stop them and they pretty fundamentally change the game for most governments. I personally believe the result of this will be a shift to geoist taxes where taxes are paid on properties or paid by corporations.

Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#402
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a better question: Why? This is exactly what crypto-enthusiasts claim is going to happen to the US Dollar and I've never heard mention of crypto taking pity on fiat by offering to give them crypto when the bottom finally falls out of fiat. So why should anyone else be responsible for people who took a calculated risk that blew up in their face? Yes, this sucks for them. But this shit happens. Don't throw good…

>Here's a better question: Why? A calculated risk is that you put money into something which may end up losing all of its value; not that your collateral becomes locked in a safe with an accidentally lost key. They had a reasonable expectation that even if the value was totally lost, they wouldn't have their collateral locked forever. Their investment, yes, but not their collateral. Sure, one always has to account fo…

"And, look, if the casino gets robbed, and you are chilling in the lobby, you’re gonna get robbed too. Obviously you’ll be sad about getting robbed. You came to gamble, maybe to get rich or else to have fun losing your money, and getting robbed does not satisfy either of those desires. But it could be worse. You were … at the casino? You were mentally prepared to lose that money anyway.

Similarly the expectation for anyone trading crypto surely has to be that it’s a risky volatile asset class where you can lose all your money in a variety of exciting new ways, and if you are parking some of that money in dollar stablecoins some of that expectation ought to carry over. If you want to put your money somewhere safe, there are banks and money-market funds and Credit Suisse supply-chain funds, and if any of them go bust then that is a potential financial-stability problem. If you want to put your money somewhere safe for crypto, there are stablecoins, and if any of them go bust then that is a brief distraction from the crypto exchanges losing their customers’ money in other ways."

Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#403
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had a reasonable expectation that even if the value was totally lost, they wouldn't have their collateral locked forever. Their investment, yes, but not their collateral. They literally handed their money to a computer program that works outside of human control and cannot be interfered with... which means if something goes wrong no one can intervene and sort it out. This is a risk they took willingly. It's no…

>which means if something goes wrong no one can intervene and sort it out That's true in general, but in this rare case anyone's USDC can actually theoretically be recovered in full if the price ever manages to get just barely above 0 for a period of time and they pull it out during such a period. If nothing can be done, you have to just take the loss. But here something can actually be done, and it's not like it's i…

Why can't someone "paint the tape" as they called it in olden days?

If it's possible, what would make it difficult? Or what would make it impossible?

I kind of thought that there isn't normally any requirement for any particular volume of trading to set a price.

Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#404

I wrote Skepticoin as a serious parody of Bitcoin. Articles like these about the "state of the art" of cryptocurrency make me wonder: would a parody of a more "modern" cryptocurrency even be recognizable as such?

That reminds me of a discussion a while back on whether or not "Snow Crash" was a parody. The main character was named "Hiro Protaganist" who worked delivering pizza for the mafia and there was a character who could take on pretty much any number of people completely unarmed, plus had a nuclear bomb wired to a dead-man's switch which caused quasi-governmental organizations to leave him alone. That's two items, but th…

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Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#405
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. Part of it is just a personal problem of mine; I like Ethereum, smart contracts, dapps, DAOs, and decentralization, but I hate finance. (Of any kind.)

I think this is actually common, and one of the reasons HN hates crypto so much. I think most engineers hate finance, but fail to realize how much power it has in the world. If you spend some time learning about the history of finance, you begin to see it as the engine that powers innovation, rather that just a way for gamblers to speculate. Obviously it attracts gamblers, scammers, etc, but that's just a function of…

I'm thankful for financial services that do actually result in capital being efficiently allocated to help create actual innovation. However, it seems a lot of it is either swallowed back by the thing creating it so that it can recursively grow itself indefinitely (the ouroboros again), or just hoarded by individuals and not used in any useful way, or perhaps any way at all.

A lot of capital from the finance industry seems to be used to innovate for, perform R&D on, and bring new products/services to the finance industry. Some of that ends up in the hands of VCs and other investors - but then a lot of them also put most or all it into the finance industry in one form or another, and then put their returns on that into the finance industry as well.

Some subset does go into other industries, and that's certainly good; if the money was acquired ethically, at least. But then a lot of or all of the returns on that probably also go into the finance industry. Some of them will continue to invest in actual things for the rest of their career, in which case it's probably all a net benefit for the particular industry being invested in, and potentially also for the economy and for society, but it kind of feels like squeezing a ten-million ton lemon to produce a pint of lemonade.

Money is a proxy for energy, and energy is a proxy for power. (And by the transitive property, money is a proxy for power, though everyone knows that one.) All three can theoretically be used for good, useful things that benefit humanity. On average, maybe they do or maybe they don't; not sure. But at the extremes, where there's a dense concentration of money, energy, and/or power distributed across a few small clusters, it seems like it typically isn't used that way. And I'm definitely no Marxist in the slightest; I like capitalism in theory and often in practice. It's more the meta-capitalism I don't like.

Things like ERC/BEP-20 tokens are kind of a proxy for the capitalism of capitalism distilled to its purest, rawest, most comical form. Some people with good intentions like Vitalik Buterin do use that to benefit humanity, and work on meta-capitalism with the intrinsic terminal goal of benefitting humanity, but I think most people don't and won't. You need meta-capitalism, just like you (generally) need a government and a military and a police force, but with great power comes great opportunity to ride that bull to the moon and beyond.

Perhaps my opinion will change at some point, but, to me, it evokes intense unctuousness. I think I might even prefer this contemporary Wild West to some extent. It's pure and it's actually honest about its intentions. It's Oceania. There's no bullshit. They tell you what they want and what they're doing in full earnestness with a smile on their face and a hand in your pocket. In various communities, people openly and cheerfully talk about how they know it's all a racket and a game. They know there're absolutely no "fundamentals".

Some seem, or at least claim, to do it because they feel like Wall Street has had a monopoly on it for ages and now they finally get a chance at it without any gatekeepers or corporate masks. Some don't care either way and do it because they want to and they like the dopamine rush from both the "journey" and the "destination(s)". (It's probably a mix of both motivations for most.) Can't say I like it, but I certainly respect it a lot more than the people who dress it up in bespoke clothing.

I really don't hate cryptocurrencies at all. I've been following them for over a decade. My post history here is filled to the brim with lengthy defenses of them, constantly arguing with the stereotypical black-and-white HN skeptic. I've been seriously considering even trying to pivot my entire career into the industry. But I still think it's unlikely I'll ever not dislike finance.

Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#406
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just hit the nail on the head. I did not think about that. This is the true reason they needed to special case <=0.

If you think about it, the special case should give holders the option to withdraw the 74c of USDC without any TITAN. Clearly the programmers didn't fully think though what would would happen if TITAN reached and got stuck at zero value.

This is what I was thinking. It should be decoupled. Here are the rules for how many USDC you get and here are the conditions for your TITANs. On the TITAN there should have been a condition for over zero, and a totally separate condition/case for zero… or less than or equal to zero since we’re working on edge cases no one considered.

Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#408
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that Circle is based in the US and subject to US court rulings, more likely they would need to freeze and hold those assets pending any potential lawsuits to recover funds.

If there’s a statute of limitations, they’d eventually be free and clear, no?

It would eventually escheat to the state, not Circle.

Re: The collapse of the IRON stable coin

#410
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about multi-level marketing. Which isn't quite a pyramid scheme (even though it is pyramid-ish). Pyramid Schemes have the originators (the "top" of the pyramid) win lots of money, while the base (the "bottom" of the pyramid, where most people are) losers. And the top barely did any work to get there: they just took the money from people below them.

> You're talking about multi-level marketing. Which isn't quite a pyramid scheme Aunt Meg, is that you? I told you to stop it with the essential oils already.

She’s this close to getting her Lexus*

* (A lease in your name on Lexus that they will cover the payments on so long as you keep consistently bring in a statistically unlikely amount of product every month for the entire 72 months you were signed up for)

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