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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

chicagomaroon.com

401–410 of 502 posts

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#401
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. It does come from the longform well-wishing but it has been a separate greeting for a decently long time which is reflected by the fact that "guten Morgen" became "Guten Morgen" in the spelling reform 25 years ago. (Though, they did allow both variants a decade later (as is the case with a lot of other words), "Guten Morgen" is still the recommended one.) So that means if you are wishing someone a good mo…

The fact that you need 25 years of cultural background to understand what Guten Morgen means is the whole point. You could similarly explain why Americans asking "how are you" is not a real question; the whole point is that the culture differs from the literal phrase, which makes it difficult for non-native speakers.

Not sure why you downvote me for explaining why the language used by an old woman is not indicative of how things are today (or have been for a while even). (Though, in her case, in kmarc's example, the usage of the longform makes sense regardless.) Apart from that, we discussed German terms, not American ones. And, as explained, in German the discussed greetings are actually taken rather literally. At least I believe giving some very small insight into a culture is actually useful but apparently you disagree.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#402

Estonian here. At Skype (10+ years ago) I observed, that members of large cultures (American, British, Hindu etc.) had real trouble adjusting to the predominantly Estonian-based engineering culture. Probably because they had never had to adjust, commonly people adjust to _their_ culture as it tends to dominate large organizations. But once they did make an honest attempt, that was always most welcomed and gained them…

> Cultures are hard and take a lot of mutual respect to work through. It's always beneficial, not only when dealing with people of other cultures, to adhere Postel's law [0]: "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

Ah! Never drew the parallel, but being an uber-introvert with no desire to be involved in any social conflict for the rest of my life, I naturally gravitated toward that behavior.

“When people grow tired, they call it wisdom”.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#403
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. I understand your point and i know it's a difficult question to deal with sometimes, especially during depression. But remember that you're not those people's top priority. That sentence means you are allowed to ask them for stuff, but it doesn't mean they're going to drop everything and take you into their care right now without you taking a few steps…

The problem is that a lot of the time it feels like meaningless platitudes. Like they feel they have to say something out of politeness but don't actually want (or able) to help you. What would have been better? To just say "I'm sorry you're having a hard time". If you don't mean something, don't say it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

While it may seem like I am being oversensive about the subject, it is understandable because I left out a large part of the context. When you have heard of this phrase hundreds of times over multiple years by people who were not in the position to help you in the least bit, it becomes a meaningless platitude.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#404

Lith here. One of the most embarrassing things that I've done in my life was first day of induction in my UK university. The lecture was about cultural differences. We were assigned into groups and asked to list couple of stereotypes that we know. I didn't realised we were supposed to say something like "Americans are hard working and Brits are punctual". Instead I've bombasted to 200-something students that Asian pe…

haha what?! I love me some good stereotyping humor but I’ve never even heard of that one! What do they smell like?

Just to fit in the missing piece of the puzzle: In the UK (and unlike the US), the term “Asian” is frequently associated with Indian and Pakistani and not just East Asians.

I’m guessing this is what the OP had in mind.

Blurting this out must have been mortifying.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#406
post #345

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

I once had a similar situation with the question "Is everything OK?", which is slightly different from "How are you?". I am a German living in Germany and i once caused a car crash that made another car spin into the ditch on the side of the road. That car was driven by a family of Russian heritage. After getting out of the car i spoke to the other parties wife first and I asked "Is everything OK?" with what i ment:…

As a Balkanian living in Germany I can confirm, it is quite hard for us to get used to a German level of stoicism.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#407
post #69
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teeth in skeletons from the Middle Ages seem fine. It is later ones, after bringing sugar back from the Americas, that have lots of cavities and missing teeth.

Check out the thesis of the recent bestseller Breath by James Nestor. Native American and other traditional cultures put serious emphasis on nose breathing, strictly avoiding mouth breathing. Apparently, consistent nose-breathing can affect nasal and upper-palate development, favoring a spacious mouth and straighter teeth. It can also help avoid dry mouth at night, apparently favoring resistance to dental caries. The…

This is complete pseudoscience. The Sawbones podcast has a good overview of this idea: https://maximumfun.org/episodes/sawbones/mewing/

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#408
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. I understand your point and i know it's a difficult question to deal with sometimes, especially during depression. But remember that you're not those people's top priority. That sentence means you are allowed to ask them for stuff, but it doesn't mean they're going to drop everything and take you into their care right now without you taking a few steps…

The problem is that a lot of the time it feels like meaningless platitudes. Like they feel they have to say something out of politeness but don't actually want (or able) to help you. What would have been better? To just say "I'm sorry you're having a hard time". If you don't mean something, don't say it.

It's not for you they say it, but for them and or others. Or to put it more directly, you don't say it for them, you say it for you.

It's like forgiveness, if you forgive someone, the main benefit is to you. By forgiving someone you take a load off your own shoulders. It's often meaningless to them if those forgiven know they are.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#409
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember taking a doing-biz-international course - one thing that was stressed was that personal space is different for different cultures, you can back someone into a wall if your normal speaking distance is larger than someone else's. FYI for Americans a good rule of thumb is that Americans are comfortable at roughly an arm's length - reach out and touch someone's shoulder with your knuckles - after taking that c…

> reach out and touch someone's shoulder with your knuckles - after taking that course this became a company greeting .... This greeting might not be perceived too well in Germany.

Yeah in the Southern US there is a good chance if you reach out and touch someone with your knuckles they will think you are looking for a fight. If it's someone you are very comfortable with it would probably be taken as "playing we might fight" like you would do with a cousin or brother but probably don't do this lol.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#410
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Americans] would sugar coat criticism under 10 layers of phony praise It really annoys the hell out of me. What’s wrong with just saying what’s wrong? The last example here on HN was a web version of flutter, where everyone was like “it’s amazing, so awesome, much controls” and only four comment levels deeper someone noted that it’s an utter crap that stutters at scroll on top hardware, cannot select text, cannot zo…

This is also a big annoyance for me. I regularly interact with people of different cultures, and find that interpreting feedback is something I have to context switch for often, always needing to remember whom I am speaking with. My native culture is quite straightforward in how things are phrased. As such, I find it easy to work with e.g. Germans, who routinely use phrases such as "this is unacceptable" in feedback.…

Just to add another perspective, as an American living in Germany, I often find that the German criticism of American optimism/interpersonal warmth is extremely paranoid. I have heard so many Germans describe American "niceness" as "fake", but I don't think the American approach is rooted in dishonesty as it's sometimes assumed by outsiders. For instance, Germans will be shocked if they go to the US, and a stranger starts a conversation with them waiting in line at the convenience store with a lot of warmth and curiosity. As I understand, to them this reads as the approach of someone who wants to con them or trick them, putting on the guise of un-earned closeness. But Americans in my experience just give interpersonal warmth a bit more freely, and are more willing to have friendlier interactions with someone they don't know, with no expectation that the relationship will last longer than the time both of you are standing in line, while that type of warmth and friendliness will be reserved for close friends and family in other cultures. As someone who grew up in American culture, it's not "fake" or forced when I smile to a stranger, or congratulate them on the new grandchild they just told me about in our first meeting. It's just part of the culture, and it's something which I enjoy to give and receive in these random, short interactions throughout the week.

And when it comes to work criticism, I agree that there is some value in what would be considered "blunt feedback" by American standards, and that Americans are sometimes too hesitant to give it. At the same time, I think this also comes from a different cultural approach which is also valid. Americans have deeply rooted ideals for independence and self determination, and a general sense of optimism. I think the default position when someone is showing you a piece of work is often to assume that they have it under control, and that it would be presumptuous to tear down a piece of work someone else owns and that you are seeing for the first time. By focusing on praising the best elements of the work, you are giving your colleague feedback on what they should focus and expand on, and you are leaving it up to them to discover the flaws in their work and resolve them in their own way. So you would reserve direct criticism for times when you think there is a critical misunderstanding in the basic direction of the work which will prevent the correct result from being reached.

And you can cliticise the American approach all you want, and I will be the first to admit that it does lead to a lot of problems and blind-spots. But as someone who has worked in the US and in Germany, my experience is that American companies move and innovate a lot quicker than German ones by focusing on potential rather than flaws, and that trend seems to have been borne out if you look at the major innovations which have come out of each country in the last 30 years.

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