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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

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Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#401

Post by Valmar »

bl0b wrote: post #13
creato wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unfortunate, but it is less unfortunate than the behavior of crypto miners. Freedom is great when people aren't using their freedom to infringe on other people's freedom.

Could you explain how you see crypto miners as infringing on other's freedoms? I certainly agree with your first sentence, and think NVIDIA crippling hash rates on their GPUs is the lesser of two evils - just because I think crypto miners are a) wasting massive amounts of electricity and b) messing up prices in the GPU market.

Let's see... crypto-miners hoarding GPUs by the tens, hundreds, even, driving up GPU prices for the non-miner. Also, when the cycle busts, hoards of cheap, abused mining cards flood the second-hand market, making it difficult for companies to sell fresh cards, and also possibly hurting the company's reputation when an abused mined-on GPU fails prematurely.

Miners can whine, all they want, but something needs to happen to hamper their greed for virtual money.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#402

Post by emsy »

ALittleLight wrote: post #231
emsy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your criticism is valid, but I don’t think it’s sensible to adhere to principles in a black and white way. For me, the minor restriction put in place by Nvidia is the lesser evil when you consider that they could just as well sell out to the miners and drastically increase their margins. In fact, I think it’s a very sympathetic move. I don’t think “it will be broken” is a good argument, because the intent dis…

Their intent is to limit what people can do with their hardware. That strikes me as almost morally wrong. I tell the computer what to do. It doesn't tell me what to do. I think cryptocurrency is a scam and I'll be glad if/when it goes away and graphics cards become cheap again. However, I will never support hardware manufacturers infringing on the idea of general purpose computing for the sake of their business model…

>If they want gamers to get more graphics cards then make so many graphics cards that everyone will be able to afford them. Don't try to artificially limit what the hardware can do.

If there are poor people why don't they print more money? But seriously, I addressed this in my reply: there is an ongoing chip shortage in the industry (besides the fact that it may not make sense to scale a production line for a demand surge).

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#403

Post by ajmurmann »

Justsignedup wrote: post #254
slownews45 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thrilled by this. This has been a common approach in I think almost every industry. What nvidia is doing is recognizing that the needs of existing long time consumers / clients / partners are not being met by the current situation. Yes, it inflates short term profits and increases their pricing power, but long run if you can't buy nvidia for your dev box, your game box etc, this reduces the long run nvidia ecosys…

To add on: none of it is malicious. its just the market stabalization problem a) let's keep consumer grade stuff stable in price b) let's charge miners 3x, because they willing to pay 3x, and destroy the scalping market which is VERY anti everything. Scalpers hurt literally everyone. c) let's not de-stabalize nvidia's income again when eth drops in value. They don't want to be beholden to a coin's gamble either. Basi…

Aren't scalpers only there because the product is clearly underpriced? Why not increase prices till the scalpers are gone or simply auction the GPUs off? That's clearly what the market is pointing at.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#404

Post by koluna »

webinvest wrote: post #361
throwaway879 wrote: post #346

Using a made up but probably good enough analogy, if scientist created a blackhole in the lab that could end up sucking in the entire planet and the solar system, would it be OK for someone to jam the mechanism that sustains it? I think of PoW gambling casinos slash Ponzi schemes (Bitcoin) in the same way. If the governments don't have any motivation to stop the mayhem, then the company whose products are being used…

I can’t blame you for using a throwaway account for a comment like that. Many cryptocurrencies provide value while video games suck time and value.

I’m sorry, spit my coffee over the keyboard. What value does cryptocurrency provide other than sucking the world’s electric energy for meaningless calculations?

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#405

Post by floatingatoll »

wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

Cryptomining angers me on a deep level far more than the nascent attempts of Nvidia to segment it. I think they're doing an incompetent job of diminishing the value of it, but at least they're making an effort to do so.

Cryptominers are a far greater threat to general purpose computing than Nvidia. They ought to be compelled by law to purchase carbon credits for their mining, to offset the environmental destruction their petty "get rich quick" efforts have inflicted on the planet, enforced through Coinbase et al. and with noncompliant (offshore) exchange/wash platforms blocked and their users prosecuted through national laws and international agreements. Cryptominers and the malware they've created makes a very strong argument for walled gardens with enforcement and review of applications, simply because the vast majority of PC users are worse than useless at preventing misuse of general purpose Windows.

I also think this proves Apple right on integrating the GPU on-die with the CPU, and not selling the CPU standalone at all, because Apple — unlike Nvidia and AMD — is having no such trouble with miners on their general computing platform. This issue is for whatever reason restricted to DIY PCs, and cryptomining will be the end of DIY PCs if this keeps up.

(Perhaps you meant "DIY computing" rather than "general purpose computing"? I definitely see Nvidia's steps as interfering in the build-your-own computing market, but if it keeps the DIY computing market from dying off in favor of Apple, isn't that a desirable outcome?)

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#406

Post by LeftTriangle »

wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

Yes. Everyone disagreeing with you is just making excuses for manufacturers to turn customers into serfs.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#407

Post by longhairedhippy »

smoldesu wrote: post #397
savant_penguin wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that miners will simply workaround the downgrade software (as they did in the past) and regular consumers will be the only ones with crippled hardware

Nvidia is implementing a hardware fuse system (a-la the Nintendo Switch) to prevent firmware manipulation. I can't speak to how secure these new cards will be, but the Tegra was an absolute pain in the ass to work with. It took a year before people even figured out how the firmware was loaded, much less how to interoperate between custom and official ones without blowing a fuse. To this day, approaching half a decade…

I think the big difference here is there is no money behind hacking the Switch, it's an interesting problem to a small(ish) subset of people. There's tons of folks that would make actual hard cash off those hacks which will make them much more invested in finding out how to work around the solution.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#408

Post by moogly »

kevincox wrote: post #162
moogly wrote: post #68

Why only reduce them to half the performance? How about 0%. I predict this will do absolutely nothing for general availability of these cards.

Because halving the performance makes them unprofitable to run. If you buy one you can still try mining, and if it falsely detects mining your desktop won't crash, but professional miners won't be interested.

Considering they sell the cards afterwards, I remain unconvinced that they will (to miners appear to) be unprofitable at half the hashing performance.

I fear these guys will just want the double amount of cards now :/

So sorry, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#409

Post by minsc__and__boo »

slownews45 wrote: post #103
wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

I'm thrilled by this. This has been a common approach in I think almost every industry. What nvidia is doing is recognizing that the needs of existing long time consumers / clients / partners are not being met by the current situation. Yes, it inflates short term profits and increases their pricing power, but long run if you can't buy nvidia for your dev box, your game box etc, this reduces the long run nvidia ecosys…

Yep, this is designed products for specific markets that are currently being untapped.

It's allows for a premium charge on crypto-enabled cards while still capturing the consumer market. It's a great solution.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#410

Post by ajmurmann »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #83
Siira wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just raise the prices. Supply and demand, you know?

Prices have been raised. You can buy an RTX 3080 right now if you want. It's just going to cost you $2500 or so because vendors and scalpers are capturing that markup.

Sounds like Nvidia hasn't actually raised the price. They could just auction this off from their website directly and cut out the middle man.
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