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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

economist.com

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#401

Post by deepakhj »

supernovae wrote: post #331
throwaway6734 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoning failures are widespread throughout the country. If more people want to live somewhere, those regions should make it as easy as possible to develop housing and incentivize it

And then what happens when the reason to live there is now gone? You seem to frame it as an exclusivity problem - they're trying to exclude people from affordable housing... while the people who live there look at it as preserving what makes it livable neither are right or wrong on their own, but surely build at all cost isn't a solution to mountain town charm

Single family homes is exclusive. You’re choosing to build a mega mansion on a big plot of land vs letting 100 people enjoy that land. The latter will be more affordable.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#402

Post by kristjansson »

davidw wrote: post #327
mark_l_watson wrote: post #281

My wife and I traded living near a beach and lagoon in San Diego country for a small but nice house in a mountain tourist town (Sedona Arizona). That was back in 1998. Except for some time working as a contractor at Google in Mountain View and managing a deep learning team for Capital One in Urbana/Champaign IL, we have lived a quiet life in the mountains since 1998. One reason for my success in being happy here is t…

I think this concept of "acceptance of other people" is key. There seems to be a sort of cultural meme, especially in the western US, that everyone should be able to have a ton of land to themselves, but that's simply not realistic. "Beautiful, scenic place; solitude; easy access to population centers" - pick two. There's a popular Wilderness Area about a 30 minute drive from Bend, Oregon and people act all surprised…

Exactly. With the slight caveat that beautiful and scenic really only enter into your triangular choice when a place is publicized (advertised?) as such. There are beautiful, restive, empty places to go within an hour Los Angeles, Seattle, ... that are kept that way only by relative obscurity and mildly inconvenient access.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#403

Post by giantg2 »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #380
Loughla wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YMMV on this one. In my part of the midwest, home and land prices have almost doubled in the last year, and went up about 6x since we built our house (about 8 years ago). Two reasons: (What used to be called) Yuppies moving out here and working remotely to 'get more in touch with nature' (read: start a blog or something about sustainable living that is really only possible if one of you has a 100k+ salary) and invest…

If property values go up 5x, shouldn't the mill rate go down 5x, leaving property taxes the same? It's not like these towns have 5x more libraries, 5x more police officers, 5x more roads, etc. The level and number of services in the town isn't changing. It has the same number of street lights, and they all consume the same amount of electricity, and so forth.

In my state they leave the mills the same, then apply a common leveling ratio at the county level to try to equalize the property value and cost of living compared to other parts of the state. It's better than nothing.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#404

Post by reducesuffering »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #308
dcolkitt wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just the genetic heritability of intelligence and other personality factors. High IQ, high achieving people are disproportionately attracted to certain job markets. Those people tend to have high IQ kids. Those high IQ kids tend to grow up and become high achieving adults. The outcomes would largely be the same whether those same kids grew up in Palo Alto or Peoria. Don't confuse correlation for causation. Sim…

You're not addressing the thing I was talking about. Take for instance the bevy of amazing mathematicians produced by early 20th century Budapest. That wasn't just genetics, it was the culture of the city and the teachers those people had. Likewise you could look at the rise of soccer greatness in Rio; that wasn't genetic, it was due to features of life in Rio and a culture of passion for soccer. IQ is less important…

> Take for instance the bevy of amazing mathematicians produced by early 20th century Budapest. That wasn't just genetics

That's up for debate in some circles.[0]

[0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-consid...

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#405

Post by fasteddie31003 »

blunte wrote: post #102

My last home in the US was near a ski resort in Colorado, and it was a fantastic life - incredible mountain biking in the summer, and of course snow skiing in the winter. It was truly heaven. That was before remote work was as common as it is now. If I had to go back to the US, that would be the place. Sure, you miss out on the cool things the city offers; but a couple hours drive and you're in a big city. I found th…

Moved from SF to Denver to Breckenridge in the past year. We couldn't be happier. Just got back from my morning hike in the mountains. Got into a dangerous spot when I lost the trail and got stuck in hip deep snow without snowshoes. Hearing explosions from avalanche detentions now. Next, I got my remote standup and writing code for the next couple hours. Not a bad life IMO. Also, Breckenridge has better Mexican food than anywhere in SF.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#406

Post by xpe »

grecy wrote: post #364
bedhead wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

> I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners Housing can not be both affordable and a good investment. Given second homes are an investment, by definition having one means you're helping make homes unaffordable.

Yes, 'on the margin' (in economic terms).

This is a collective action problem. If one person decides to not move to Undiscovered Gem, Wild West then there is a large number of others that will.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#407

Post by throwaway316943 »

bedhead wrote: post #223
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

I’ve lived in a small city for the past 20 years that went from being a very sleepy, homogenous, and cheap to crowded, busy, and expensive. Both conditions have their pros and cons. Restaurants and night life used to be dull and limited, office jobs were fairly scarce and there was a culture of aggressive ignorance. Those things have improved but now lower income people can’t afford to live in an apartment without sharing with multiple roommates, crime, drug abuse and homelessness are exploding where they were at practically 0 before, home ownership is out of reach for a lot of people and many of the unique local businesses and institutions have collapsed due to rent increases. As far as I can tell, most people are on average worse off than they were before, there’s less of a sense of community, people are more rushed and have less time to relax and socialize, there isn’t the same level of trust between strangers and a hundred other little things. Maybe people were a bit poorer and more intolerant of outsiders before but a lot has been lost for only a little improvement.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#408

Post by orasis »

eysquared wrote: post #24

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

The problem is that you overpay for real estate driving prices through the roof and leaving legacy locals homeless.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#409

Post by dublinben »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #388
dublinben wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the result is a more livable city that attracts even more people That doesn't sound so bad. What's the alternative?

Yes, unless you are looking for low cost housing.

How do you lower the cost of housing in desirable places? Make them less desirable? Prevent people from moving there? Build more housing?

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#410

Post by bsanr2 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120
eysquared wrote: post #24

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Add "gentrification" to the list of things that are visiting the American mainstream after decades incubating in America's marginalized communities, alongside things like addiction and broken social service processes (hello, unemployment and insurance exchange websites).

If we'd been better about crack/cocaine, opioids wouldn't have hit so hard. If UI benefits weren't designed to be difficult to acquire, the ongoing problems states are having distributing them in this crisis wouldn't have happened. Right now, people living in small towns that are being effected by an influx of monied transplants have a roadmap of how this process works. If they so wish, they can disrupt it, and insist that, as new wealth pours into their area, a substantial portion of it is put towards improving the area for current residents, and towards securing their socioeconomic right to remain there. Sometimes that means telling rich people no and foregoing a short-term pretty penny, and being ready when they come after you for denying them. But that's much easier than watching your community disperse to parts unknown while yuppies live it up in your childhood home-cum-gutted minimalist smart bohemabode.

Will they heed the warning?

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