They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions • Hacker News Board

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#401

Post by nemothekid » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #375

bobthechef wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sowing artificial conflict among the plebes is a tried and true technique.

The surprising thing to me is that in previous eras the plebes didn’t have access to data or education or literacy to maybe realize this, but what is the plebe’s excuse nowadays? Only one I can come up with is many of the plebe’s think they’re eventually going to not be plebes.

I think "plebes" back then had a tool to balance the dynamic: unions. I previously wasn't a union guy, but the more I read into it the more I realized two things about the union as an organization:

1. Unions provide negotiating power against elites.

2. Unions were the last remaining non-religious, working-class, political action organizations.

I think the second point is important and a underrated when it comes to union power, and more importantly might be more important than being able to negotiate wages. In the past, unions used to be actual voting blocs, so it provided a secondary mechanism for the working class to exert their political power. That is almost impossible now, and as a result our politicians answer more to wealthy PACs than anything else. Without unions, most people are politically inactive, or self-select into red/blue due to culture factors or team sports.

Without an organization it's literally impossible for any individual to overcome the system even if they realize the problems within; and it's hard to not get involved in identity politics when if you lose it means you lose your job/housing/opportunities.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#402

Post by brundolf » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

peytn wrote: post #114

adjkant wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd answer, but go to the megacities that show resilience and are building housing. In the US, so far that may only be NYC. I know that's not amazing to hear if you have other reservations about NYC, but I think it's the reality until mid-sized cities catch on and get their shit together. The other answer IMO is to pick a city no one in tech is even thinking about, and the growth rate is expected to be slow. Not to j…

DFW is another such megacity. The construction happening there reminds me of parts of China.

I came from DFW (technically one of its suburbs). You're either in the suburbs, or you're living in a sea of hot concrete. Unless you retreat to one of the less-wealthy (read: genuinely middle-class) suburbs, everything from the restaurants to the billboards is steeped in corporate pretension and wealth-signaling. And then you're still, well, in the suburbs.

In my first round of interviews out of college I interviewed with a company in Dallas. It was going well, but towards the end of the day I was frank with my interviewer and told them I simply didn't want to live in DFW. I didn't have another offer yet, but I found one in Austin and moved there.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#403

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

clipradiowallet wrote: post #391

lotsofpulp wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If rents start increasing, then investors will build new housing. All the city has to do is approve the permits. >Take from the people who produce much, and give to the people who produce less? Maybe? Depends if you want to avoid this situation: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/8f/07/778f07ec78b997b4f218...

Is this difficult, getting approval? I don't live in a large city where the idea of building permits really comes into mind, so I don't have much experience in what could be involved there. For some contrast, I live in the "rural" US, my home is surrounded on 4 sides by farm fields as far as you can see. This is like peering into an alien bureaucracy for me.

Difficult is an understatement. You have to hire the right lawyers who know the right people who can direct you to make the right donations. And if you need a variance, you can 100x the difficulty. It’s a political game, and everyone wants a cut. Not to mention fighting the people who don’t want change in their neighborhoods or congestion on the roads.

And in the meantime, you might also be stuck paying property taxes or fees on a contract to purchase the land that you need extended because the zoning board meeting ran too late and they couldn’t get to your permit.

People don’t understand what it takes to develop property in already occupied areas, and why developers only build “luxury” housing. There’s a reason rents and land prices are high.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#404

Post by Decade » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

howinator wrote: post #238

I live in this neighborhood, about three blocks north of where the car club meets. I’m white. I’m a homeowner. You get the picture. Honestly, these people complaining in Weaver sound insane. They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community. We have a Brit who lives on my street that does community organizing and he’s been wonderful about building a sense of community that integrates the…

> Also, doing burnouts and donuts on public streets sounds fun but it leaves the road covered in tire rubber and I imagine it smells awful while they’re doing it.

It indeed does smell awful, and the tire dust is filled with toxins that you probably don’t want in your system; that have already been implicated in the deaths of salmon.

It’s also very loud, well over 100 dB. That’s enough to cause permanent hearing loss.

I don’t believe the moral high ground is with the car club. Their behavior harms people outside of their in-group, with the most severe harms falling on people less privileged than themselves.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#405

Post by rhines » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #209

airhead969 wrote: post #175

To be fair, I'm a middle-aged white engineer raised in San Jose, CA relocated to ATX in Dec 2020. I live at the corner of I-35 east-side frontage and 5th in a mega apartment complex. I've tried meeting many of my neighbors and most are asocial/antisocial. There are 2 women roommates and an African-American kid who are legit cool that I've met so far. Also, I don't even know the people across the hall. My conclusion f…

> Heck, my upstairs neighbor complained about my music on the weekend during the day without introducing themselves and not diplomatically. Tangential (and probably just a perennial old guy complaint), but it seems like people have forgotten how to do this. If you have an issue with something your neighbor is doing, then go talk to them . Don't leave an aggressive note. Don't let it boil over until you're so upset yo…

What I've found is that people who aren't being respectful are rarely the kind of people to curb their behaviour after a nice chat. I had a neighbour that would incessantly play loud music (in a building where noise was prohibited in the lease), and I politely explained that it was easily heard and disruptive, and asked if they'd please turn it down or use headphones. They said sorry and agreed to, but then didn't make any changes. Next time I knocked they didn't come to the door, and another day I heard them yelling about how they choked some guy out and wanted to kill them - so all my future complaints just went to the landlord till eventually the tenant was evicted for harbouring a criminal.

With that said, I still agree that it's worth just talking to them as the first action, in case they are just a nice normal person who doesn't realize how poor the soundproofing is.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#406

Post by wan23 » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

whack wrote: post #355

howinator wrote: post #238

I live in this neighborhood, about three blocks north of where the car club meets. I’m white. I’m a homeowner. You get the picture. Honestly, these people complaining in Weaver sound insane. They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community. We have a Brit who lives on my street that does community organizing and he’s been wonderful about building a sense of community that integrates the…

> With that said, I think there are legitimate criticisms about the car club. For one, they absolutely trash the place every Sunday. When I walk down to the lake on Monday, there’s just tons of trash on the ground. I don’t know who picks it up but it’s certainly not the car club. Also, doing burnouts and donuts on public streets sounds fun but it leaves the road covered in tire rubber and I imagine it smells awful wh…

We supposedly live in a democracy, but the ability to affect what laws exist is not distributed equally. Sometimes there are two groups with opposing views of what the law should be, and the smaller group loses out. Oftentimes those people gather together in a place and have the local law enforcement disregard the law in their area. For example, pot is legal in Colorado even though it's illegal in the United States as a whole. Similarly, the residents of this neighborhood don't want the noise ordinance to be enforced, and they have been just fine with the way things have been going for decades. The newcomers can certainly appeal to the city that the law is being broken, but in doing so they are exercising political power to undermine the will of their neighbors, who spent time and energy to build a community they would be happy to live in. Having the law on their side doesn't make it a nice thing to do.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#407

Post by droptablemain » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

microtherion wrote: post #390

droptablemain wrote: post #12

"Another Weaver resident voiced more generalized criticism, calling the event a 'display of toxic masculinity.'"

In general, I find that a somewhat overused trope, and I'm particularly suspicious when it's weaponized by gentrifiers, but if you look at the rims on the car at the top of the article and the burnout later on, maybe in this case, there may be a kernel of truth to "display of toxic masculinity". I like gadgets, and I can understand why people would want to enjoy them and show them off and I think that there should be…

It sounds like you're completely mystified by a sub-culture you have little to no exposure to.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#408

Post by lacker » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

Decade wrote: post #404

howinator wrote: post #238

I live in this neighborhood, about three blocks north of where the car club meets. I’m white. I’m a homeowner. You get the picture. Honestly, these people complaining in Weaver sound insane. They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community. We have a Brit who lives on my street that does community organizing and he’s been wonderful about building a sense of community that integrates the…

> Also, doing burnouts and donuts on public streets sounds fun but it leaves the road covered in tire rubber and I imagine it smells awful while they’re doing it. It indeed does smell awful, and the tire dust is filled with toxins that you probably don’t want in your system; that have already been implicated in the deaths of salmon. It’s also very loud, well over 100 dB. That’s enough to cause permanent hearing loss.…

Yeah, the article is clearly pro-car-club but it seems to disregard what to me is the main question - is this car club doing anything illegal? If they aren't breaking the law, then it's not appropriate to call the police. If they are breaking the law, driving illegally in some way, or drinking in public where it's not allowed, then of course it's okay to call the police.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#409

Post by SilasX » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

howinator wrote: post #383

SilasX wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the context, that seems like a reasonable approach. The only thing I would offer is, do they know they can contact Pio or the Brit? I'm sure they'd much prefer to liaise with them rather than hope the police will fix everything. How would they discover such people? FWIW, I'm kind of in the same situation, as I bought a place last month in the gentrifying East Riverside area (just across the river from the…

Yeah this is hard. Honestly E. Cezar Chavez is lucky in a lot of ways because Pio and the Brit are so active in the community. The one thing I can say is that you should meet your neighbors, join in if there's a block party and just generally talk to people in-person. If you do that, I'm sure you'll meet someone who is at least the de-facto community leader. But whatever you do, stay off of NextDoor -- nothing good h…

Thanks! But also, what about the other side -- is there maybe a way to raise awareness about the existence of these community liaisons so the people in the article at least know they're an option? Like, if they were doing everything wrong, it seems they may be just completely ignorant of them.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#410

Post by sneak » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #365

sneak wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wouldn't come back with a gun yourself to resolve the issue, it's a dick move to call someone else (a cop) to come over with a gun. If you're making phone calls for armed response because someone is playing music, the problem might be with you.

This is one of the most insane comments I've seen on hacker news. Police are there to enforce the law. The only reason they have guns is to defend themselves or the lives of others. If I ask you to turn down your music at night, and you refuse, it's not legal for me to enforce noise ordinances myself, so I call the people who do such things for a living.

> Police are there to enforce the law.

When I see statements like this I wonder if we experienced the same 2020.