The language here confuses the truth.
They banned people from taking a vaccine that is very safe and effective.
Give people a choice.
Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
401–410 of 572 posts
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#402Vaccine skepticism is already very high in many European countries, including Germany. Vaccination doesn't work if 1/3 to 1/2 the population doesn't want to get the vaccine because they are afraid of the side effects. There may be some value in governments showing citizens how cautious they are being, even if it is not necessarily warranted based on the number of adverse reactions.
> Vaccination doesn't work if 1/3 to 1/2 the population doesn't want to get the vaccine because they are afraid of the side effects. I get that herd immunity won't occur if a significant proportion of population isn't immunized... but it still works on an individual basis.
Yes, but herd immunity makes it possible to protect the total population from a disease including the ones that cannot get vaccinated, such as children or those with contraindications.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The EMA has said that as of March 10, a total of 30 cases of blood clotting had been reported among close to 5 million people vaccinated with the AstraZeneca shot in the European Economic Area, which links 30 European countries. "The decision today is purely precautionary..." given this level of signal. We don't have details on the age groups involved and the normal rates expected but I can hazard a Fermi Estimate…
> the risk is minuscule compared to COVID-19 itself You don't know this at all - we don't know what age groups are affected here, and COVID is pretty much negligible in many younger age groups. It's best to wait for more data to come in before drawing any conclusions.
No matter who you are, vaccination is safer than catching covid. The vaccines are designed and tested for safety; covid gains evolutionary fitness from making you sick. As a result, the risks from vaccination are orders of magnitude lower, no matter what the covid risk is.
(Edit: Deleted second paragraph that wasn’t clearly worded.)
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, you see fifty years a few thousand birth defects occurred because one drug was approved too fast. Therefore millions now have to needlessly die while perfectly good vaccines go stale.
this is awful first order thinking. If public authorities are perceived as untrustworthy on the safety of vaccines, there's a very high chance there will be widespread rejection of vaccination altogether in the population. People aren't utilitarian machines, trust in drugs is very easily broken, vaccines in particular. Showing neglect and lack of precaution may harm vaccination efforts for decades.
There are large swathes of the world, where significant fractions of the population refuse vaccines out of fear of witchcraft and voodoo.[1]
Do you think we should add an FDA phase five stage, where exorcists and witch doctors carefully study Covid vaccines for evidence of black magic and evil spirit? Because it's perfectly sensible to let rational people die to satisfy the whims of whoever holds the most irrational beliefs? Because you're making the exact same argument, except just substituting out Western anti-vaxxers for folk superstitions.
There's no evidence to indicate that anti-vaxxers are sensitive to clinical evidence whatsoever. A third of American adults are considering foregoing the vaccine[2], despite it being the most extensive and sophisticated safety trial in vaccine history.
Why would you believe that the minutiae of the FDA approval process would have any effect on anti-vaxxers, when the vast majority of their beliefs come from wholesale fake news.[3]
[1]https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/172046/1/884014355.p... [2]https://apnews.com/article/ap-norc-poll-3rd-adult-skeptical-... [3]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7...
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#405Vaccine skepticism is already very high in many European countries, including Germany. Vaccination doesn't work if 1/3 to 1/2 the population doesn't want to get the vaccine because they are afraid of the side effects. There may be some value in governments showing citizens how cautious they are being, even if it is not necessarily warranted based on the number of adverse reactions.
> Vaccination doesn't work if 1/3 to 1/2 the population doesn't want to get the vaccine because they are afraid of the side effects. I get that herd immunity won't occur if a significant proportion of population isn't immunized... but it still works on an individual basis.
but it still works on an individual basis.
It's less effective if the recipient believes the vaccine is ineffective or dangerous, and can make side effects more likely to occur (nocebo effect).
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the risk is minuscule compared to COVID-19 itself You don't know this at all - we don't know what age groups are affected here, and COVID is pretty much negligible in many younger age groups. It's best to wait for more data to come in before drawing any conclusions.
No matter who you are, vaccination is safer than catching covid. The vaccines are designed and tested for safety; covid gains evolutionary fitness from making you sick. As a result, the risks from vaccination are orders of magnitude lower, no matter what the covid risk is. (Edit: Deleted second paragraph that wasn’t clearly worded.)
The chance of catching COVID between now and the other vaccines being made available is quite low.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
Take a look at this COVID daily trends graph from the CDC: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrends... From an average of about 50k cases reported daily in April through October to about 200k cases reported daily in November, December, and January, then back down to 60k by March. And there's a similar winter increase in the worldwide cases (some of which is from the US cases, but not all): https:/…
Winter also corresponds with holiday seasons. Further, South American countries were some of the worst hit during the Nov - Feb timeline. South Africa was badly hit around this time. And all these are Southern Hemisphere countries that were experiencing summer around then. Now, there’s clear evidence that warmer weather makes things easier, since the virus has lower survivability outside a host in the heat, so all th…
[deleted]
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
> AstraZeneca on Friday said unspecified export restrictions now rendered plans to bring in large amounts of doses made outside Europe unlikely. It said it now expects to provide 100 million doses to the EU in the first half of this year, down from earlier commitments of around 270 million.
Export restrictions by other countries, from vaccines themselves to substances needed. Pretty sure you got it wrong.
Hmmm you might have a point. That way of reading it is way more amicable. Thanks.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Vaccination doesn't work if 1/3 to 1/2 the population doesn't want to get the vaccine because they are afraid of the side effects. I get that herd immunity won't occur if a significant proportion of population isn't immunized... but it still works on an individual basis.
but it still works on an individual basis. It's less effective if the recipient believes the vaccine is ineffective or dangerous, and can make side effects more likely to occur (nocebo effect).
[[citation needed]] specifically for vaccines.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
this is awful first order thinking. If public authorities are perceived as untrustworthy on the safety of vaccines, there's a very high chance there will be widespread rejection of vaccination altogether in the population. People aren't utilitarian machines, trust in drugs is very easily broken, vaccines in particular. Showing neglect and lack of precaution may harm vaccination efforts for decades.
There are large swathes of the world, where significant fractions of the population refuse vaccines out of fear of witchcraft and voodoo.[1] Do you think we should add an FDA phase five stage, where exorcists and witch doctors carefully study Covid vaccines for evidence of black magic and evil spirit? Because it's perfectly sensible to let rational people die to satisfy the whims of whoever holds the most irrational…
sorry, but this is an abysmal straw-man. In this case the vaccine distribution has been paused because of reports of blood-clotting. Even if that turns out to be spurious, it has to be investigated and precaution has to be used.
This stop in Germany comes from Germany's federal vaccine authority, which as far as I know, does not employ witch doctors.
If it turns out that a vaccine actually has harmful side effects (which is possible, this is not some conspiracy but a risk of all drugs), and the administration would have ignored it, you have eroded trust far beyond anti-vaxers.