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Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

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Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#401
post #374

At what point did Bill become an expert on everything? It's cute that he takes his little bag of books and secluded himself in his she-shed and reads. But honestly, why do we now trust him to be an expert on so many subjects when he hasn't even gotten an undergraduate degree in anything, let alone spent decades studying a field. I can't tell you how many books I have read by experts that later turned out to completel…

> At what point did Bill become an expert on everything?

When he made billions in a society which values making billions above (almost) everything else

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What defines a currency being "better" than another? Is it number of transactions? Is it acceptance among merchants? Is it low fees? Is it stability in purchasing power? Is it likelihood that there will be a fatal flaw in the system that causes financial loss? Every project has its own strengths and weaknesses, but it's hard to argue that Bitcoin isn't the best on many of those measures. It's all about which of them…

Look at Bitcoin.orgs own marketing. https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#what-are-the-advantages-of-bitcoi... "Payment Freedom" and "Choose your own fees" are both things that no longer apply to Bitcoin.

"Choose your own fees" still holds, but everybody has freedom around the choice of fees. You are free to propose a fee that suits you and miners are free to ignore your proposal.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#403
As something of an outsider (I own some crypto but know/care very little about it) I cannot fathom how anyone could defend the energy consumption associated with Bitcoin. Maybe someone can change my mind, but based on my current understanding, I would fully support outlawing that specific kind of energy waste.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#404

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

Cryptocurrency solves for the issue of two people that don't trust each other transacting. How do I know the $100 bill you're handing me isn't fake?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#405

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

The fact that network and first to market effects are so strong in crypto is an indication that the market doesn't actually value things like proof-of-work or faster transactions or smaller fees. Sure, there are a small number of enthusiasts and professionals who do, but they don't make a market. Most of the people involved just want to buy a worthless asset and trade it to somebody who will pay more for that worthle…

It is an indication that in a free market, people are able to choose what works best while the forks and knockoffs prove that nobody believes in them, or that they are unsafe networks.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#406
post #374

At what point did Bill become an expert on everything? It's cute that he takes his little bag of books and secluded himself in his she-shed and reads. But honestly, why do we now trust him to be an expert on so many subjects when he hasn't even gotten an undergraduate degree in anything, let alone spent decades studying a field. I can't tell you how many books I have read by experts that later turned out to completel…

[deleted]

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#407
Mr. Bill Gates has a great ego, and money to make almost anything happen. Hope he takes up flying! into the ground at high speeds. Why would I trust this sweater wearing phoney opinions on how to fix the world, given how terrible windows is. When his vaccine truck pulls up to a school, little black kids in Africa run. They know...

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even arguments about renewable energy being used to mine BTC are moot, because they don't consider the opportunity cost of what could be done with all that energy instead. If I launch a BTC miner into space and use a star to power it, will you worry about what else could have been done with that energy? The more remote the energy source, the higher the cost to deliver it to a centralized grid, meaning it will probab…

> If I launch a BTC miner into space and use a star to power it, will you worry about what else could have been done with that energy? Well first of all you used a ton of energy to get it to space. But yes, I would definitely worry about it. There are a ton of other CPU intense jobs you could do with a rig like that that would be more beneficial to humanity. Medical research for example. It doesn't matter where you d…

The point is that without btc the energy wouldn’t have been captured anyway. In theory if all btc miners used only renewables, the price of renewables would drop, and become more affordable for others, and the net impact on the environment would be positive.

Renewables are infinite, we are constrained by our ability to capture them efficiently enough to beat fossil fuels.

There are probably other factors at play that prevent this from working in reality though

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#409

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

You're getting a lot of responses, because this is a pretty common complaint about crypto, and it taps into a great "WELL ACTUALLY" moment, because your concern is close enough to the "at least real money is backed by something" misconception (which, tbh, I'm sure you're aware of at this point if you weren't already).

Fundamentally, what folks are trying to get to with crypto is a trust-less system, one that can operate regardless of whether or not there are bad actors involved (including and most commonly as the central authority, aka banks). Historically, it's been a lot easier to build systems that don't account for bad actors, and it's been continually problematic for society because that assumption is so obviously and blatantly false.

Maybe crypto, as we know it, isn't the solution, and certainly proof-of-work has serious negative drawbacks. However, with the advent of automated computational devices, the possibility of evolving past our many-thousand year old system of bartering is too enticing to just ignore. We know there's a better way, and the odds we'll nail it on the first try are nearly zero, so I personally welcome any attempts that lurch us forward in the meantime, even if they're not the end destination.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#410

Bitcoin has all the disadvantages of gold and none of it's benefits. Gold became a valuable barter item because of it's convenience. Store-of-value is the worst trait of gold, the incentive of sitting on a pot of gold is better than in investing it in a productive endeavour. Gold simply cannot fuel the rapidly growing modern economies, neither can bitcoin.

Funny that you mention it. It's the opposite in my view. Depending on "to whom".

If you you have savings, of course it's better for you to have it hold value. And if you hold debt, it's better for you for that to fall over time. But we are not discussing whether "everyone is in debt" is good/bad, we are talking whether money is good/bad for the money's purposes. Also, Bitcoin flows over wires and gold does not.

Speaking of debt, if "it's good for society" for a lot of people to be in debt (because how else would ppl prefer assets to depreciate so they are stimulated to get rid of them?) then how do you avoid fewer people being creditors? In my view, more ppl with savings and fewer ppl in debt is key to a democratic/decentralized society w/o dangerous concentration of power.

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