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Bitcoin Is Time

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Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#401

Post by oliv__ »

boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

I'm genuinely amazed at how you're able to take such an in-depth, thoughtfully written article, and reduce it into a mere "bitcoin is a waste of time, people are gamblers".

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#402

Post by lottin »

cyphertruck wrote: post #235
vishnugupta wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This[1] is an insightful article from an economist who has experienced the real world economics from very close quarters. I don't have any opinion about Bitcoin one way or another, though through these fascinating arguments I gain new insight about the money and its relationship with geopolitics, human civilisation and other aspects. [1] https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-da...

That article is from 2013 and so we must grade it on a curve. He makes several wrong assumptions about how bitcoin works because he’s thinking it is based on trust, and he is an inflationist. I have yet to have an economist explain to me why deflation us bad- computers getting cheaper is good, fixed income people being able to afford things us good. Inflation mainly allows government to hand out money yo wall street…

> computers getting cheaper is good

In the context of deflation goods getting 'cheaper' simply means that their nominal price falls, while real prices remain constant. If you thought that deflation makes people richer (or that inflation makes people poorer) then you were wrong.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#403

Post by edem »

anthropodie wrote: post #370
boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

> Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I see another comment on top doing the same. Why do people start with this? If you don't bother you should not even brought that up. Seems like an underhanded way of getting more points. Do people even fall for this?

I happily downvoted just because of this.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#404

Post by shawnz »

betterunix2 wrote: post #381
shawnz wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Union has a lower transaction rate than Visa, so does that make it necessarily less useful or valuable (either absolutely or per-kilowatt)? Also, as you noted the energy usage is correlated with the value, not the transaction rate. Transaction rate limits could be changed arbitrarily without affecting the energy usage of the coin. However you have the causal relationship backwards: The value of the coin deter…

"Western Union has a lower transaction rate than Visa, so does that make it necessarily less useful or valuable (either absolutely or per-kilowatt)?" The transaction rate is not what matters; what matters is the energy spent per transaction. Visa process many more transactions for much less energy than Bitcoin, and is therefore more efficient. I suspect Western Union's energy consumption is roughly in proportion to V…

My point was that WU and Visa solve totally different problems which have different challenges. Why should it be expected they would have a similar cost per transaction?

> Higher transaction fees make Bitcoin less valuable by imposing a greater burden on using the system ... volatility in energy prices would trigger volatility in transaction fees and thus volatility in Bitcoin's overall value.

Good point, that is certainly a risk with Bitcoin.

EDIT: Actually thinking about it more I'm not sure why this would be true. Since the transaction rate is not related to the number of miners, volatility in energy prices might cause miners to enter/leave the system but I don't see why it would impact the coin prices.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#405

Post by claudiulodro »

fredfoobar wrote: post #373
boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

You're being sarcastic, but honestly you've converted me. :)

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#406

Post by hfsp »

betterunix2 wrote: post #311
ballofrubber wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to share your Econo101 knowledge? I'm not an economist, but nothing has convinced me yet that bitcoin is not the best form of money.

The collective energy spent by Bitcoin miners equals the energy consumption of Argentina, yet the Bitcoin network only processes a small fraction of the number of transactions per day that Visa processes. For reference, Visa itself consumes only a small fraction as much energy as Argentina. In other words, you must cover the cost of vastly more energy per Bitcoin transaction compared to the mainstream financial syste…

>Bitcoin network only processes a small fraction of the number of transactions per day that Visa processes

Btc is not replacing visa. Btc is replacing central banks. The appropriate comparison here is what is the energy cost of the banking infrastructure of the incumbent system.

>Environmental concerns aside I am concerned that you are using electricity to power your computer, access the internet, and comment on HN. Are you the arbiter of "moral" energy use? Am I? Slippery slope, and an anti-human one at that.

>Energy prices are notoriously volatile; hence Bitcoin's value will also be volatile.

This is not how it works. There is an argument to be made for risk of on-grid miners sudden increase of electricity prices in the case of a power shortage. Miners don't like this type of risk, so they choose to locate at places with abundant supplies and stables prices of electricity. Miners sign long-term electricity agreements. Risk to off grid miners is another level removed from on grid miners.

>will eventually be abandoned entirely. According to how you feel? All signs point otherwise.

>the technical objections to Bitcoin outweigh the economic objections You are free to make your own fork, BIP, or new "crypto" and compete. Good luck. By the way, there are 7999 "crypto" coins competing and losing so far.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#407

Post by akudha »

sphix0r wrote: post #300
gnrlst wrote: post #210

I'm ready to be downvoted to oblivion, especially by all the Bitcoin purists, but I hope my message sparks at least some curiosity. Bitcoin is getting "weaker" every year for several reasons: - emerging centralization due to economies of scale. If this trend continues the mining power will be so consolidated that a 51% attack will be likely. The Nakamoto coefficient is already at 4, and tending towards 3. - energy us…

It's really sad to see the current state of bitcoin. We can't really justify the current energy consumption while mainly being used as a financial instrument to speculate on. Nano has been on my eye for a while now. I hope Nano will get the attention it deserves. Sub second feeless money settlement transactions is such a game changer. Nano just works.

Any thoughts on Cardano? They seem to be moving slow, but they also seem to be taking a more rigorous approach.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#408

Post by rtrdea »

renewiltord wrote: post #396
anthropodie wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I see another comment on top doing the same. Why do people start with this? If you don't bother you should not even brought that up. Seems like an underhanded way of getting more points. Do people even fall for this?

It's a very effective meme. Like most such memes, it worms itself inside, and the vehicle doesn't consciously know of its presence. These people aren't thinking "I'll do this. It'll get me votes". It is unconscious mimetic memetics, if you will :) Some of these memes become elevated into conscious actions. For instance, people cynically exploit "Linux can't do X" to get help for X. But some memes are unconscious and…

I was with you til the last sentence. Have an upvote

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#409

Post by [deleted] »

anthropodie wrote: post #370
boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

> Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I see another comment on top doing the same. Why do people start with this? If you don't bother you should not even brought that up. Seems like an underhanded way of getting more points. Do people even fall for this?

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#410

Post by Nursie »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #353
gnrlst wrote: post #210

I'm ready to be downvoted to oblivion, especially by all the Bitcoin purists, but I hope my message sparks at least some curiosity. Bitcoin is getting "weaker" every year for several reasons: - emerging centralization due to economies of scale. If this trend continues the mining power will be so consolidated that a 51% attack will be likely. The Nakamoto coefficient is already at 4, and tending towards 3. - energy us…

Bitcoin is technologically obsolete but that doesn't matter. As the very first coin, its history is the main reason it's still relevant today. It's very well known and that makes its position as the number one cryptocurrency extremely hard to shake even though we have much better coins now such as Monero.

> Bitcoin is technologically obsolete but that doesn't matter.

Which just underlines how much of this whole phenomenon is brand and hype.

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