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Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#401

Post by tehjoker »

YZF wrote: post #386
tehjoker wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Jew, it makes me feel sick to see my people treat others as subhuman. My expectation is that of generosity, open democracy, freedom of religion, respect for international law, and demilitarization, but apparently US/Israeli geostrategy is having none of that.

I think it's an unreasonably high standard to expect Israel to vaccinate Palestanians in the occupied territories before Israelis. Going from that stance to saying (all?) Israelis treat Palestinians as subhuman is also a bit of a stretch. Are Americans treating Canadians as subhumans by not allowing Pfizer to ship vaccines from its US factory to Canada? In Judaism "the poor of your city" come first. What other countr…

I think giving first priority to Israeli citizens when Palestine is under occupation is the definition of second class. There should be some kind of even distribution based on proportion of population. If they don't want the responsibility, they should withdraw barricades and forces from Palestine.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#402

Post by da_big_ghey »

tehjoker wrote: post #331
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Except for Palestinians of course where they refuse their legal duties as an occupying power to render medical aid. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/03/israel-giving-5000-vaccine-d...

Would Palestinians accept a vaccine from Israelis? I would certainly hesitate to be injected with anything by an occupying power.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#404

Post by azinman2 »

jacquesm wrote: post #144
rock_artist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give some balance. Just as I got my second jab and waiting the 10min needed for surveillance. (Tel Aviv, Israel) > Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. It's a mixed situation here. * Israel supposedly paid 3 times more than others per shot (but if it works, it's cheaper than the economy losses). * Israel has free public health care. * All public health care…

> Israel supposedly paid 3 times more than others per shot More than that even, closer to a factor of 10. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/the-cost-of-vaccinating-is... $47 / head! VS closer to $5 in other countries.

If it saves lives and gets their economy back to normal, that was the right call. Meanwhile we’re discussing sending multi-thousand dollar checks in the US because of Covid.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#405

Post by nir »

2-tpg wrote: post #397
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Israel has one of the best biowarfare offense and defense in the world. For them, Iran releasing a bioengineered pathogen is a legit threat. The El-Al flight that crashed in Amsterdam in 1992 was carrying materials to produce large quantities of Sarin for the purpose of testing gas masks. Israel is specifically suited to treat COVID as a test-run for a biowarfare attack. A real War Effort, because it is one.

Actually it's the HMO system here, much more than the military. Every Israeli, by law, has healthcare insurance. It works much like income tax - deducted automatically from your pay, varies according to income level, and is transferred directly to the HMO you pick among several options which compete (quite vigorously) with each other.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#406

Post by melkhior »

helge9210 wrote: post #320
eladFrizi wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that healthcare providers could use external staff such as IDF medics only strengthen my point. Even though is just a drop in the ocean of the vaccine task force. I haven't seen any other resource says IDF transporting the vaccines. Teva is the responsible of that and it's not an issue. Neither about anyone who is not soldier and got vaccine at IDF. The Covid tests in Israel are nothing to be proud of.

There is no such thing as "external IDF medics". If you're putting some medic in uniform you have to pull him from some healthcare provider or hospital.

Why? Some people who are recruited as medics into IDF wouldn't have thought about being medics before that. They also have to serve their Army service either way.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#407

Post by zbrozek »

azinman2 wrote: post #400
mchusma wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also has almost no sense or urgency (maybe more than the EU, but pretty bad). Examples: - modernas main bottleneck is filling. They applied weeks ago to fill the same bottles with 15 doses instead of 10. The FDA has still not approved it. - the us prioritizes second doses over first doses. This creates a ton of cascading issues, including the fact that many places are storing half the doses for 28 days. Many p…

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions that FDA approval/disapprovals are slow due to a sense of urgency. I’d like to see evidence for that, I’d personally assume it’s quite the opposite— they’re trying to get it as right as they can before doing something at scale that can’t be easily undone. If 15 doses lead to issues compared to 10, then you jeopardize all those vaccines which are slow and difficult to make. Y…

It's really hard to grok why 15-vs-10 doses in a bottle should be a problem. Sure you've got the out-of-fridge time, but that hardly seems like an issue when the population is itching to get vaccinated.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#408

Post by whiddershins »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #130
lucd wrote: post #104

Here is some chart showing vaccination effect on hospitalization for severe forms. Very telling. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-severe-hospitaliza...

I'd expect that case fatality rate would significantly reduce after 60+ population (which is 90%+ of deaths) is vaccinated. However, even though more than 80% of 60+ got second dose already, case fatality rate is approximately the same. I don't have any good explanation for that.

Most vaccinated people will not test positive.

This reduces the number of cases.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#409

Post by marshmallow_12 »

tehjoker wrote: post #401
YZF wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an unreasonably high standard to expect Israel to vaccinate Palestanians in the occupied territories before Israelis. Going from that stance to saying (all?) Israelis treat Palestinians as subhuman is also a bit of a stretch. Are Americans treating Canadians as subhumans by not allowing Pfizer to ship vaccines from its US factory to Canada? In Judaism "the poor of your city" come first. What other countr…

I think giving first priority to Israeli citizens when Palestine is under occupation is the definition of second class. There should be some kind of even distribution based on proportion of population. If they don't want the responsibility, they should withdraw barricades and forces from Palestine.

>they should withdraw barricades and forces from Palestine. The oslo accords, gaza withdrawl. They were attempts to give palestinians autonomy. They were disasters. Israel need to continue occupation purely to ensure their own survival.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#410

Post by nir »

tehjoker wrote: post #346
greenonions wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when has 'law' applied to Israeli behavior in Palestine?

As a Jew, it makes me feel sick to see my people treat others as subhuman. My expectation is that of generosity, open democracy, freedom of religion, respect for international law, and demilitarization, but apparently US/Israeli geostrategy is having none of that.

As an Israeli I always wonder why people who live in the US or Europe think they have some special insight into Israel/Palestine by merit of being Jewish or Muslim.

Israel is vaccinating Palestinians who are Israeli citizens. It actually runs special promotion campaigns (including the PM visiting Nazareth) because some in Arab population are reluctant to take it.

It does not vaccinate Palestinians in the Palestinian controlled areas as it has no authority to do so. Furthermore, Abbas and the PA leadership make a point of not allowing their citizens access to Israeli healthcare (though they did make sure to get vaccinated themselves).

Some time ago my wife was involved in an effort to provide life saving medical care to a Palestinian child in an Israeli hospital. The hospital waved all costs and the treating surgeon was in daily touch with her. The PA refused to allow the child entrance into Israel to receive that care. This wasn't an isolated case, it's PA policy.

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