Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#401

Post by KallDrexx » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #283

whymauri wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No 'obscene usernames' is actually hilarious to me. The bastion of free speech won't even allow users to choose their own handles.

I'm confused as to how some people here are simultaneously digging on Parler for speech they "allowed", and then also that "they weren't really free speech". What is it you wanted them to do? I think it's pretty reasonable to not have "See me on Parler @ParlerLovesNaziPussy" as that content that Parler could not control outside of their platform. Restricting usernames seems like a prudent move, even for a free speech…

People aren't digging on parlor for speech they allowed while criticizing them for not being free speech.

They are criticizing them because they heavily advertised to people that they should go to parlor claiming that it was meant to fight for free speech because Twitter and other platforms were restricting free speech. Except Parler itself was restricting free speech on it's own and thus people are rightfully pointing out the hypocrisy. It shows that Parler wasn't in favor of free speech, it was in favor of "our side".

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#402

Post by tptacek » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #390

tptacek wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like "first they came for the socialists, then they came for the socialists, then they came for the socialists, and then they came for the socialists".

No, I mean those individual things. There may be some intersection between Alex Jones fans, Daily Stormer Fans and Reddit users ... but they're certainly not the same audiences at all. You can replace them with anyone you want that's heterodox that's been banned honestly.

You think there may be some intersection between Alex Jones fans and Daily Stormer readers? The Stop The Steal rioters were wearing Auschwitz t-shirts.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#403

Post by simonbarker87 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #365

simonbarker87 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cofounder and I used to manage a £100k/year ad budget and we did TV, news papers, radio and Facebook. The level of engagement and ROI on Facebook was insane compared to the others specifically because we could tweak and cohort up the audience so specifically - we even commented how terrifyingly powerful it was and that it was a good job we were only selling a home efficiency central heating product because in “the…

How much of that was useful engagement though? One of the hot topics a week ago was ad fraud being so prevalent on Facebook and Google that it caused Uber to shift their whole strategy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25623858

Our sales numbers, the only metric that mattered to the kind of business we ran was 10x even the best of the other methods

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#404

Post by cy_hauser » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:25 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #162

burke wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A salient difference is that Big Tech will at least pay lip service to the idea of moderation, when push comes to shove. Parler is founded on the idea of absolutely unmoderated speech. Even if they win this one, the writing is on the wall for them. EDIT: This is not as true as I thought. Interesting information below!

> Big Tech will at least pay lip service to the idea of moderation You are not really watching if you think that is what is happening. They are controlling the narrative. They are promoting some topics and pushing down other. Facebook deleted WalkAway, a group that had full moderation, did not allow any posts which called for violence, and which was pure political speech. Reddit is deleting each and every sub that go…

> and which was pure political speech.

I'm okay with this. We've had Republican/Conservative vs. Democrat/Liberal in every other form of media that I can remember. What's wrong with that split with "Social Media" or with hosting providers (think publishers), etc.

The problems seems to be that conservatives thought these services should be neutral but the services themselves have not thought otherwise. It will sort itself out over the next five to ten years.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#405

Post by cudgy » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:26 PM UTC

cy_hauser wrote: post #398

cudgy wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Twitter and Facebook have extensive systems for keeping the various horrors in check. They are not as good as I think they should be. But they're miles better than what Parler had, which was more of a fig leaf.” If Twitter and Facebook (being multibillion dollar companies with a decade or more to build these algorithms) haven’t solve this problem yet, how can any upstart possibly compete with them? They’d be shut do…

Being smaller they can and should user human moderation. Twitter and Facebook have problems because of the huge number of posts. Parler is still small enough that then _can_ moderate.

Good point, but it is not scalable.

“Five million people were active on Parler on Monday, which Mr. Matze wrote was an 8-fold increase in user engagement from the previous week.”

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/10/parler-says-i...

This doesn’t seem like a problem that could be solved with more human eyeballs.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#406

Post by anonuser123456 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

COGlory wrote: post #227

ahiknsr wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the same Glenn Greenwald who said Authoritarianism in US has nothing do with Trump? [1] [1] https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-threat-of-authoritarian...

Either Greenwald is correct, or he isn't. His opinion on non-factual things should have no bearing on that.

One's opinion has a very profound bearing on how he interprets and report on facts.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#407

Post by Normille » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

brabel wrote: post #395

Normille wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parl-fucking-LER! At least take the time to note the name of the company, before weighing in with your opinions. [None of this confusion would arise, if you Yanks spelled 'Parlour' properly]

Not a Yankee. And sorry for misspelling and hurting your feelings.

You didn't hurt my feelings. It just surprises me that someone thinks "Wow! I have a strongly held opinion about X which I really must share with the world!" but then doesn't even bother to take the minuscule amount of care required to note how X is spelled.

It just suggests the poster's examination of the subject in question has been pretty perfunctory and their opinion slightly less than well thought out.

[But congratulations on not being a Yank. That's something, at least]

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#408

Post by manigandham » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

COGlory wrote: post #270

manigandham wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Facebook being two of the most valuable companies along with hundreds of billions of dollars and petabytes per hour. What kind of evidence are you looking for exactly?

That it works better. I'm wondering because of this submission the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25623858

Uber was a victim of fraud, not a failure of advertising. They should've known better and used more checks to catch it quickly but they already run plenty of targeted campaigns precisely because they work well.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#409

Post by CobsterLock » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

demygale wrote: post #64

Parler has a moderation policy and they don’t apply it. Content that promotes illegal activity is not protected free speech and is also prohibited by Parler’s policies. They selectively applied that moderation after they became popular with MAGA. Also, 4chan exists why can’t Parler find a host?

Isnt 4chan self hosted? i remember reading blog posts about m00t's server migrations which was actually him strapping a server in the back seat of his car and driving cross country. but that was a while ago, maybe before cloud hosting became the norm.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#410

Post by curryst » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:37 PM UTC

demygale wrote: post #64

Parler has a moderation policy and they don’t apply it. Content that promotes illegal activity is not protected free speech and is also prohibited by Parler’s policies. They selectively applied that moderation after they became popular with MAGA. Also, 4chan exists why can’t Parler find a host?

4chan lacks any kind of organization whatsoever. It's hard to say that 4chan is any particular thing because it's so amorphous and liable to switch to something else new. That makes it hard for most people to see them as potentially dangerous.

Their posting style also helps. They talk about absurd things, in absurd ways. They look insane, they don't even try to make things reasonable. That makes many people underestimate them, because they seem far too loony to do anything significant. It also makes deplatforming them unappealing. Where are these people going to go if 4chan stops existing? No one wants to see this on their Facebook feed.

In short, 4chan acts like they're too incompetent to do anything.

Parler is full of people who are coherent enough to actually stage some kind of a violent, semi-coordinated attack.