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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#401

Post by ketamine__ »

incrudible wrote: post #353
eejit_compiler wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterexample: The Pirate Bay have successfully dealt with this sort of thing for many years, and they were subject to much harsher and more sustained censorship. Including legal attacks by various nation states. Is it really totalitarianism in this case? Or, just some private companies inconveniencing people by choosing not to do business with them?

It is divise and it will backfire. Soon there will have to be a separate everything for Republicans and Democrats. Chances are that Trump is going to own a big part of it. That is why Trump is not on Gab or Parler, because he will compete with them.

Except Twitter is for Republicans too. And many of them like Bill Kristol turned against Trump because of his behavior. Many that still support Trump have managed to stay on Twitter because they act responsibly.

The problem with Parker and Gab is that they are only for the problem users. In fact, in an interview with Kara Swisher the CEO said that they have panels of volunteers that judge whether a post should be removed. The blind leading the blind.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#402

Post by benmmurphy »

betterunix2 wrote: post #115
eganist wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you be ok with Stripe stopping payment to the GOP? Has the GOP, specifically the GOP, advocated for the violent overthrow of the United States Government?

The RNC declared Trump to be the leader of their party after he told a crowd of armed terrorists that they should go to the Capitol and "save" the country from the politicians who were busy certifying the results of an election. They did so after that same crowd stormed the Capitol building, replaced the American flag with a Trump flag, and proudly declared to the cameras that they were there for a "revolution." Kind…

Trump never advocated for violent overthrow of the government.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#403

Post by ketamine__ »

grzm wrote: post #370
ketamine__ wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know why AWS hasn't kicked off Parler yet? Is this a hard decision for Bezos?

AWS laid out the timeline in their letter to Parler: > "Because Parler cannot comply with our terms of service and poses a very real risk to public safety, we plan to suspend Parler’s account effective Sunday, January 10th, at 11:59PM PST." https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnpaczkowski/amazon-p... According to my watch, it's a few minutes past 17:30 PST.

Any idea who is hosting them now?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#404

Post by kuzimoto »

koolba wrote: post #352
kuzimoto wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the ends justify the means? Only certain ideas are allowed for mobs to be okay?

Many governors said as much this past year when they allowed, and in many cases took part in, BLM protests but banned anti-lockdown ones.

Yes, incredibly frustrating. Lots of the media played along with it as well.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#405

Post by danijelb »

incrudible wrote: post #364
danijelb wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that at least half of people here are using the free market argument ironically. Because until last week it was usually republicans who advocated for the free market, no government regulation, and believing that markets sort themselves out magically. And now they are angry when the free market is going in the direction they don't like.

There are cartel and monopoly arguments to be made that are based on maintaining an efficient free market. This is generally a bipartisan issue, but the sides are taking turns on it. Of course Stripe does not have a monopoly, but the broader discussion involves major players that can function as a cartel.

I think that Apple and Google should definitely be broken up or somehow regulated because they act as gatekeepers and there are no viable alternatives. Especially Apple where there is no way to even sideload an application. And I say this as an Apple user. But there's no guarantee what would happen even if there were five mobile platforms. In such parallel universe all five would maybe take the same action. However I don't think that other platforms which took some drastic actions last week are gatekeepers and I don't see a point in regulating them (Stripe, Twitter, AWS)

Regarding collecting money there should definitely be some government sponsored alternative solution for quick inter-bank transfers. In my country political parties collect donations by bank transfers. They provide an IBAN account number and anyone can send money to that account from any other bank in the EU. Same with private initiatives. Recently there was an earthquake in my home country which did some damage to a smaller city and most donation initiatives were collecting through bank accounts. The central bank runs the infrastructure for inter-bank communication (basically a clearing house). Right now they are working on a system where you will be able to associate your phone number and/or an email address to an IBAN (basically a DNS-like service) so you won't even need to know someone's IBAN to send them money.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#406

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

sdwa wrote: post #389
rglover wrote: post #259

Maybe I'm being naive but it seems like a larger problem is being ignored here that I feel I should call attention to. This is going to piss people off and some of those people are going to be real, nothing-to-lose extremists. Actions like these though seemingly harmless in the short-term are going to radicalize the exact person/type of people that you do not want to radicalize. Because a lot of high-ranking SV folks…

I don't agree with this at all and I am tired of seeing "sensible" people here explain how it's important to reach out to fascists and make them feel loved. You're only advocating further normalisation of fascism, and depriving them of the consequences of their actions—consequences that have always been a part of civil society. What's more, that you seem to be more preoccupied with not upsetting these fascists rather…

Just categorizing everyone protesting as "fascists" is ignorant. These people think the election was rigged, and they don't trust institutions. They think that our democracy is at risk, and your solution is to push them, deplatform them, and remove all hope of legal political influence?

Reacting to this anxiety with force is going to cause a war if it continues.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#407

Post by dragonwriter »

camhart wrote: post #385
Trasmatta wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You're really trying to compare what some randos do on Twitter to what the President of the United States did on Wednesday? Really think about it: the President of the United States incited a mob to attack the Capitol to prevent the certification of the vote of his political opponent. He did this by pushing constant lies and propaganda for months, and urging his followers to "fight" for him. Go watch his speech…

Do you honestly believe Trump was trying to overthrow the government? Had that been his real intent I'm fairly certain it would have had a more significant outcome beyond people stealing random envelops and podiums. It was a protest that went too far. We've seen plenty of this occur from both sides in the past year.

> Do you honestly believe Trump was trying to overthrow the government?

Yes, just like I think that was the US’s goal in Cuba with the Bay of Pigs. And just as with the Bay of Pigs, the active agents that were sent off were expendable and abandoned once it didn't work.

> Had that been his real intent I'm fairly certain it would have had a more significant outcome beyond people stealing random envelops and podiums.

Murder of a law enforcement officer is a more significant thing than stealing random envelopes and podiums, as is a mob being stopped from harming Congressional staffers and members at several points by only seconds (and in one case by application of deadly force.)

> It was a protest that went too far.

The people involved said online they were going to seize and kill security officers and members of Congress to achieve their goals, they did the first and were forcibly prevented from being able to do the second. It was a violent insurrection that went less far than planned.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#408

Post by ShamelessC »

refurb wrote: post #323
eejit_compiler wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does fit the definition of terrorism though: violent action, or threats of violent action, for political purposes. I think it would be very difficult to argue that last week's invasion of the Capitol Building was neither violent nor politically motivated.

By that same definition the antifa riots are terrorism too then? Politically motivated violence - throwing explosives, setting buildings on fire, etc. Yet I haven't heard that word used at all.

The "ANTIFA" riots? Can you cite a source for this claim that the black lives matters protests were propagated in any sort of widespread, organized concerted effort by "ANTIFA"? I hear this claim often from Trump supporters but as far as I can tell, they either heard it on talk radio or Fox News. Considering Fox News' coverage of Trump prior to the election, I don't exactly consider them a reliable source. If you could provide a single source for these claims I think that would help your case tremendously.

Otherwise (and I'm so sorry if this sounds condescending), have you considered reflecting on the trustworthiness of the news you tend to digest? I think we can all agree that it's time for the GOP to reflect. Many of them were willing to throw away their principles by repeating Trump's lies that the election was unfair or stolen. Have you not yet arrived at this conclusion finally?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#410

Post by Rapzid »

Trasmatta wrote: post #337
camhart wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes some were violent. Yes those who were violent should be arrested, investigated, etc. But I'd argue half the country doesn't agree that the mobs intent was on killing members of congress. And that's the issue. You view it from that perspective, and from that perspective it makes sense to ban everything. But half the country (likely) doesn't agree with that perspective. I remember seeing bloody heads of Trump on tw…

Huh? You're really trying to compare what some randos do on Twitter to what the President of the United States did on Wednesday? Really think about it: the President of the United States incited a mob to attack the Capitol to prevent the certification of the vote of his political opponent. He did this by pushing constant lies and propaganda for months, and urging his followers to "fight" for him. Go watch his speech…

I would like to add too that it's no coincidence that all these extremist groups were at Trump's rally. He has been talking to these people using coded language and rhetorical devices for years. Lots of gross rhetoric at every rally, for years and it's all recorded for people to go back and pour over now.

Then there was the great idea to hold a rally down the road from the capital building on that very day, actively invite a bunch of extremist groups you've been courting for years, whip those people up using inflammatory rhetoric and your greatest hits about the the election being stolen, tell them "Because you'll never take back our country with weakness, because you have to show strength and you have to be strong", and then invite them to walk down to the capital building with you..

And let's tweet this during the assault on congress for good measure: Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution

I'm not sure it mattered if Trump meant for this to happen. He's toxic, and he's dangerous.

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