Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 1001 posts

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#401

Post by refurb »

madamelic wrote: post #305
mytailorisrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of unions is obviously for employees to unite in order to strengthen their bargaining power. Engineers at Google are very well paid and have very nice perks (at least that the general perception), so I think what many people might wonder is what better deal do they feel they need strongly enough to unite in order to get it?

>Engineers at Google are very well paid and have very nice perks (at least that the general perception), so I think what many people might wonder is what better deal do they feel they need strongly enough to unite in order to get it? Also hope to gosh that there is a membership rate cap. 1% of every Google engineer's salary every year is an absurd amount of money. I don't understand why Sally Joe making $200k needs t…

How else do you pay dozens of union leaders $500k salaries? Someone has to cough up the dough.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#402

Post by capableweb »

mancerayder wrote: post #391

Two thoughts as I wake up to this: 1) "Arranged as a members-only union, the new organization won’t seek collective bargaining rights to negotiate a new contract with the company" What use will that be, if they don't collectively bargain, as a, em, collective of employees? The next step would be to pressure everyone to join, or the whole thing won't be very effective. 2) If the thing were to work, then I'd expect the…

Contract bargaining for the members is not the only thing a union usually does. There are loads more to it, great starting point to learn more about unions would be to read through the Wikipedia page before dismissing the idea, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union

If it wasn't clear to people working at Google before, if the company moves somewhere in order to lessen the power of their employees, I sure hope the employees start waking up to how their company treats them. My guess is that Google doesn't want to actually show that face though, so unlikely to happen.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#403

Post by Bresenham »

appleflaxen wrote: post #172

The recurring theme in the comments against unions can be captured by a simple truth: Unions don't protect your interests; they protect their interests. Which is fundamentally true, and cannot be changed. So if your employment situation is so bad that you need a second, massively powerful, self-interested entity to negotiate with the massively powerful, self-interested entity in the hopes that your interests may happ…

> massively powerful, self-interested entity

The difference is the union at some level ultimately has to answer to the workers who comprise the union, whereas the corporation is ultimately responsible to the majority stockholders who are expropriating surplus labor time from those working at corporations.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#404

Post by pentagrama »

objclxt wrote: post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

Unions are "Red scare" for many. I thinks it comes down to ideology.

Pro capitalists view unions with skepticism or hostility because challenges the system, pro socialists view as a way to fight the power structures and injustice.

Other people just don't want to be involved in unions because is a sensitive topic and are afraid to lost their jobs.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#405

Post by xtian »

csharptwdec19 wrote: post #227
ericol wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find really, really baffling the general position in the US regarding unions. It is like there's a general discourse that they are a bad thing, just like with "that other" thing (cough socialism cough). This is even more strange when you find out about police unions - that are widespread -, and what their power is. From my point of view actions of police union are usually borderline "mob-like" (as in, I mostly hear…

> I find really, really baffling the general position in the US regarding unions. It is like there's a general discourse that they are a bad thing, just like with "that other" thing (cough socialism cough). I'm from the 'birthplace' of US Auto unions. This part of your reply is actually a good place to start the explanation, because that's actually the perception of some other unions, and at times there is historical…

Are these negative characteristics you’re describing from before or after Taft-Hartley?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#406

Post by IndPhysiker »

Jweb_Guru wrote: post #158
zthrowaway wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they do something, they help destroy a company’s ability to compete. Take a look at unionization of the auto industry in Detroit back in the 70s and 80s which basically killed our lead in the industry and gave it to Japan and Korean companies on a platter.

The auto industry was unionized way before the 70s and 80s. UAW was founded in 1935. What on earth are you talking about?

I believe the GP is referring to the rapid depression in the area when auto companies started moving south to open-shop states (e.g. Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee), not the original unionization.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#407

Post by capableweb »

Mauricebranagh wrote: post #345
sz4kerto wrote: post #173

One difficulty I see with the mission statement ( https://alphabetworkersunion.org/principles/mission-statemen... ) is that it is very broad, and contains a lot of progressive values that are likely not as widely shared as the authors might expect. One might or might not agree with these values, but it is going to be significantly harder to start steering the company's product direction and social responsibility effo…

Yes they should stick to actual "Trade union union issues" to start with - and remember that large number of Google employees would be ok working on defence and probably voted republican. Selling tech to oppressive nation states who are not the USA's friends is a separate issue

> large number of Google employees would be ok working on defence

> probably voted republican

I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have any surveys or data points to support those two points?

Seems you and a few others here on HN would do good by reading up on trade unions look around the world. As far as I'm reading their values, all of them are within "Trade union issues" and doesn't consider having a country-wide political impact. The people working on this are trying to adjust their own workplace.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#408

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

objclxt wrote: post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

My most recent direct exposure to film unions was the 2007 WGA strike, which was the initial source of many of my fears about unions. The WGA didn't just say "our members aren't interested in working under these conditions"; they issued angry denouncements of anyone who did work, sabotaged production company efforts to find temporary replacements for guild writers, and recruited friends in adjacent jobs to strike with them. For over four months, the industry was just on pause, and there was nothing anyone could do about it until the union monopoly and producer monopoly reached an agreement.

I have nothing but respect for the many workers who have to unionize, because they won't receive acceptable pay and working conditions unless they do. If the WGA feels that writers are in that position, I'm not going to tell them they're wrong. But I don't think software engineers are, and I have no interest in working in an environment where my coworkers might disappear for four months and demand nobody else step in to do their jobs.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#409

Post by geodel »

xibalba wrote: post #321

I think we should all pause and consider how it is that at a 120k person company, an announcement by 230 people to unionize makes headline news. Could it be yet another instance of a "journalist" acting as advocate?

Correct. Just another day and another views as news item.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#410

Post by finnthehuman »

ddingus wrote: post #388
finnthehuman wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your POV is common to many that will accept much less with certainty rather than working through a decent amount of uncertainty for the prospect of a whole lot more. Don't you put that on me. You're explicitly talking about a scenario where we're not even comparing notes on the possibility space of that uncertainty until I'm downside-committed.

Seriously, go look up a few good organizers. They have written books on all this. You can see how things get done. Won't answer whether they should get done. That question is open right now. The market research goes like this: Who are the influencers? What do they think? What does rank and file think? Is there potential for high degree of solidarity in all that? There is your basis for an effort to be put forth for y…

> Seriously, go look up a few good organizers.

No. The organization movement wants me, I don’t want them. They can come to me.

Post reply on HN