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Voat Is Shutting Down

voat.co

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Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#401

Post by watwut »

concordDance wrote: post #399
watwut wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your thesis seriously that nazi does not exists? And in fact quite a few of your examples in fact are part of that ideology.

"Nazism" in today's usage is a collection of ideas (many with some ressemblance to the ideas of 1940 Germany). The label "nazi" is applied to anyone who believes any of them. The biggest reason why holding one of these ideas makes it likely you'll hold the others are the effects oulined above (people being pushed into the wotch community). So, in essence, the modern censorship environment created the modern Nazi. :D

And how do you explain the correlation in the past? Because the correlation of these ideas is not modern development, it was like that already during Nazi era - and when before it.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#402

Post by 0dayz »

Clampower wrote: post #361
esperent wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport competition (box, running)? I am afraid we no longer can discuss such "uncomfortable" topics You can debate those things on reddit without being censored on a lots of subreddits. However, the reason these are such contentious topi…

The fact that gender critical subreddits were banned, (like LGBdroptheT) where respectful discussion on gay erasure were taking place, speaks volumes. In The current political climate, gay people need to hear from members of their own community that homosexuality is transphobic, because it excludes transpeople. Mainstream gay and lesbian subreddits are teaching lesbians to like "girl dick". A simple joke that gay men…

I highly doubt respectful conversations were taking place where phrases like "i don't want to sleep with a Frankenstein monster" was born.

So at least be honest about "LGBdroptheT" being transphobic, if you're going to cry homophobia.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#403

Post by croon »

sfblah wrote: post #239
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tones of statements fall under that header. It can be Trump supporters tallking about election fraud, nazis talking about "race based IQ distributions" or transphobes talking about "bathroom predators"; there's no shortage of these kind of bad faith low effort "arguements". There are mountains of high quality sources you can use to argue against the claims but it takes many times the work than just showing up to "jus…

No interest in wading into the specifics of these topics obviously. But, it occurs to me that deciding which topics are troll topics and which ones aren’t confers a lot of power. I have actually seen people banned from communities when coming armed with pretty detailed data and thorough argumentation. I wonder if there’s a principled way to separate low-effort trolls from those simply willing to argue the unpopular s…

I don't moderate anything anymore, but I generally have an n strikes policy when debating with someone.

If I spend [not insignificant amount of time/mental energy] with you just to disprove something inane, and you do that to me n times, I won't argue with you anymore, even if the n+1th time happens to not be completely baseless. At that point it's either explicitly on purpose, or implicitly linked with a bias that makes them susceptible to bullshit that confirms said bias.

I don't know if there's any ab initio way of knowing if someone's spouting nonsense on purpose or not, so character patterns are hard to scale. But that's why moderation online is harder and faster than in real life, because you don't have a 1on1 interaction in the same way. It's up to netizens to behave and think before speaking.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#404

Post by mech422 »

strenholme wrote: post #342
mech422 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that shows to me is youth is liberal, which no one was denying? I'd be happy for enough for the general population to be more liberal leaning, but I can't say I'm seeing evidence of it outside of urban areas ?

The youth in the 1984 Reagan-Mondale election was not liberal (nor were they liberal in 1988, nor that much liberal than voters in general in 1992, etc.), so youth being liberal is not a function of one’s age as much as it’s a function of the generation one has been born in to.

first you talk about "our youth and our society are a good deal more liberal than they were 15 or 25 years ago.". Which you show as having gone from 54% D to 65% D ?? Which I would guess is fairly liberal. Then you go back roughly 40 years to say "The youth in the 1984 Reagan-Mondale election was not liberal".

And the generational thing is what I brought up originally. Boomers and some GenX don't necessarily 'point the way' that every generation will age.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#405

Post by mrtksn »

cbozeman wrote: post #141
ignoranceprior wrote: post #4

Voat was founded as a neutral free-speech platform. After alt-right extremists were booted off reddit, they found a new home there. The site was bombarded by /pol/ chan culture, and after that nobody else of other political persuasions really wanted to join. Kind of like that "paradox of intolerance" meme. Free speech platforms usually end up becoming extremist platforms. I remember going on voat a couple years ago a…

Its not that free speech platforms are destined to fail, its anonymity. You're not responsible for your words. That's why these fail. Notice I use my real name here on this website. Not a pseudonym. Whatever I say here, I would say to you in front of your face. Same as I do on Facebook and Twitter and Reddit and the other areas I post. I've always used my real name. I'll always use my real name. We don't require anyo…

Agree, we simulated the real world communities but left out the safeguards that real world communities have against bad behaviour. All turned in a simulation where you can do whatever you want without consequences to you but with consequences to others. It's bizarre.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#406

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #392
esperent wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport competition (box, running)? I am afraid we no longer can discuss such "uncomfortable" topics You can debate those things on reddit without being censored on a lots of subreddits. However, the reason these are such contentious topi…

The examples @piokoch made are very good. Seats in planes were designed for average people. It means that myself, as an average person, have the right to be relatively comfortable in that chair. If an obese person sits next to me, I have nothing against them on a human level - but the fact that they use my space. They are not comfortable either (certainly physically and probably psychologically) so if we accept obese…

Your last sentence contains the kernel of a reality that much of the internet would rather we don’t notice: that we don’t have to care about most of the stupid shit we see on our screens every day.

We don’t need to engage in flame wars or virtue signaling or any of these asinine debates.

People got along with their lives just fine for thousands of years without feeling compelled to debate a stranger from hundreds of miles away for 10 minutes about theoreticals that scarcely affect their daily lives.

But the social media and advertising companies can’t have that. No, we as a society need to be juiced up on fear and hate 24/7 to keep the eyeballs moving and the profits flowing.

Fact is the world is full of shitty people and ya gotta pick your battles. In most cases, the winning move is not to play.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#407

Post by ayewo »

raldi wrote: post #291
berryjerry wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is dead on correct. The problem is online most people don't have to hear what you say, they can just not subscribe or not follow you and never hear a word of what you said. This is why over-moderation on the big tech sites like Reddit, Youtube, Twitter, and Facebook is so frustrating. It goes beyond kicking someone out of the bar to not allowing someone to open a bar. And they get their moderation wrong, and I m…

Not following. You can't make your own subreddit / YT channel / FB group?

I guess the parent is referring to an eventuality of getting noticed by moderators repeatedly, they kick you out of their platform completely to save them any more headaches.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#408

Post by [deleted] »

forgotmypw5 wrote: post #396
px43 wrote: post #146

JFC that entire comment section is about blaming the Jews and using some pretty fucking horrific slurs to do it. Let that trash pile burn. Fuck those guys and anyone who would give pieces of shit like that a platform to spread their hatred into the world.

i don,t think your comment is any better.

[deleted]

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#409

Post by djs070 »

piokoch wrote: post #309
renewiltord wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the answer has to be to stop the witch hunts in the places where everybody else already is. Got to be honest, bro, I don't really care to sacrifice for "the good of society" or whatever. If you make a website where some dude is going to post anti-Semitic shit everywhere and someone else is going to have to politely explain that Jewish lizard people are not conspiring to elect a Black woman as President then sure…

Yes, but there is some middle ground between antisemitism and following what mainstream loves the a given point of time. And right now if someone dares to stick outside mainstream views this is considered hate speech, anti-XXX, etc. Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport…

If you search /r/unpopularopinion or /r/changemyview you’ll find plenty of examples of such topics being discussed.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#410

Post by strken »

renewiltord wrote: post #279
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech platforms usually end up being extremist platforms. ...when the popular platforms stop being free speech platforms. Reddit, in its earlier days, was never dominated by the Voat contingent. They were there, but they were far less extreme there than they were on Voat. And then whenever they would post rank inaccuracies, there were clearer-minded people to point out why they were wrong, in the same place w…

> So the answer has to be to stop the witch hunts in the places where everybody else already is. Got to be honest, bro, I don't really care to sacrifice for "the good of society" or whatever. If you make a website where some dude is going to post anti-Semitic shit everywhere and someone else is going to have to politely explain that Jewish lizard people are not conspiring to elect a Black woman as President then sure…

A more complete answer is that as platforms become more mainstream and get locked down, they crack down on all forms of transgression. This includes the forms we might come to view as a good thing in hindsight, and the ones we personally indulge in.

The balance is currently that sites like Reddit allow a broad range of content, and have so far not banned a wide enough range of topics to push a significant enough fraction of their userbase away. As Reddit becomes more and more censorious, it might move beyond just banning literal white supremacy, into banning discussion other socially transgressive things. These might include drugs, technology linked to piracy, gambling, pornography and sex work, and a lot of other vices that are both fascinating (from the outside) and enjoyable (from the inside).

Reddit did not make a single choice on what audience to go after. It has made, and will continue to make, such choices every day it operates, and chasing revenue will cause it to ban more and more topics. Eventually, newer and edgier platforms will be able to gain prominence with a userbase of less political and more entertaining transgressors.

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