Who Americans spend their time with, by age • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#401

Post by ttjjtt » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:14 PM UTC

ttjjtt wrote: post #375

barry-cotter wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do realize that capitalism co-opts everything and that women entering the workforce led to two people now earning what a single person used to? Two people earn a lot more than one person used to by any material metric. People don’t feel any richer because any surplus gets eaten up by positional goods. It’s not enough to have a perfectly reasonable 1950s house. You must have one twice as big, like your friends.…

Factors like the rising cost of housing and competition for education means that two parents working in professional careers with university educations can barely attain the same assets as a family supported by one blue collar tradesman in the 50s. People are having far less kids any more and they are stunned by the incompatibility of work-family when they do. We have been played.

From today’s guardian https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/12/britis...

This is a global trend

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#402

Post by tubularhells » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #376

generj wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t use autistic as an insult.

I do have an ASD diagnosis so that part was at least factual.

Brave of you to admit. This community needs to come clean on this, we have so many outspoken, autistic individuals here whose input morphs others' views on what is normal and socially acceptable.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#403

Post by Fnoord » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

tubularhells wrote: post #402

Fnoord wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do have an ASD diagnosis so that part was at least factual.

Brave of you to admit. This community needs to come clean on this, we have so many outspoken, autistic individuals here whose input morphs others' views on what is normal and socially acceptable.

Shrug, honestly I see it as a strength and weakness. Different, not less. Therefore nothing to be ashamed of. In my work, we (employer, co-workers, myself) reap the benefits of my ASD, while we work around the weaknesses.

The point that we are all governing in one way or another, like Greek Gods, still stands.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#404

Post by MaulingMonkey » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #371

irrational wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you just cut them out of your life. Tell them to never contact you ever again and move once more.

Right. It’s not the move that matters. It’s the “tell(ing) them to never contact you ever again” that matters. In other words, setting a boundary.

Both matter.

It's easy enough to tell someone to never contact you again. But if you see them daily as you prepare to commute because you live next door, a lifetime of social pressure to not be so rude as to ignore people is likely to get them to slip up and at least say "good morning!", even if they want to respect your boundaries (and definitely if they don't, and are looking for an excuse to trample all over them while perhaps pretending otherwise!) If you share a common living space or other "shared business" it's even worse, as there's also the completely understandable pressure, if not outright need, to resolve problems involving that shared business.

Moving is an action that can help disentangle you from shared business - be it common living spaces, shared fences, shared neighborhood issues, etc. - and help dismantle habits that would undermine your boundaries.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#405

Post by ip26 » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #383

ip26 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two working parents, two kids. Well compensated, both. My god do we envy friends who have family nearby. We both prefer to work, but it's still incredibly hard. As a culture we have to figure out a better way that allows everyone independence & freedom to either work or stay-at-home parent, while providing a support network.

It sounds to me that we need to, as a culture, understand the tremendous responsibility and privilege of putting a new human being on this overpopulated world to be a good place into the future, remove this entitlement, and make it the most honourable respectable choice to refrain when you can't make it work.

We are making it work and we will succeed. But it doesn't need to be like this. It could be better, for everyone.

I think at a social level, we'd generally get happier, healthier, more well adjusted young adults in exchange.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#406

Post by ip26 » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #360

ip26 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two working parents, two kids. Well compensated, both. My god do we envy friends who have family nearby. We both prefer to work, but it's still incredibly hard. As a culture we have to figure out a better way that allows everyone independence & freedom to either work or stay-at-home parent, while providing a support network.

>As a culture we have to figure out a better way that allows everyone independence & freedom to either work or stay-at-home parent, while providing a support network. Do we, though? It seems the past generation had a very nice thing going about 30-40 years ago. Fast forward and our societies are literally crumbling around us, what once took one man going to an average job to provide is now taking two full-time people…

I absolutely echo your complaints. But the old way had significant problems too. Hopefully we can find something better than either.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#407

Post by newsgourmet » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:48 PM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #383

ip26 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two working parents, two kids. Well compensated, both. My god do we envy friends who have family nearby. We both prefer to work, but it's still incredibly hard. As a culture we have to figure out a better way that allows everyone independence & freedom to either work or stay-at-home parent, while providing a support network.

It sounds to me that we need to, as a culture, understand the tremendous responsibility and privilege of putting a new human being on this overpopulated world to be a good place into the future, remove this entitlement, and make it the most honourable respectable choice to refrain when you can't make it work.

Unfortunately that translates to "poor people shouldn't have children", which is not a politically correct demand to make.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#408

Post by newsgourmet » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

rakkhi wrote: post #334

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But men didn't have a choice either, they had to do physically much more demanding and dangerous jobs. Women entered the workforce when we had comfortable office jobs around not when your granddad was plowing with an ox. And it still is that way nowadays, SV men don't experience it but men in general do the shitty a dangerous jobs and die doing it at astonishing rate compared to women.

This is a good point and often ignored. Also something I was thinking about lately: in every other human endeavour there has been increasing specialisation and humanity has benefited from greater productivity. Why is domestic duties (cooking, cleaning, looking after kids) something where we cannot have specialisation? I don't really care if the man or woman does it but would we not benefit from one partner doing most…

Afaik reports found families with clear division of labor to be more happy. Of course that doesn't mean people should be forced to do it that way. It's just a data point.

For various reasons, many families don't even have the choice anymore. They need both parents to work fulltime to make ends meet.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#409

Post by benibela » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #387

emptysongglass wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that capitalism co-opts everything and that women entering the workforce led to two people now earning what a single person used to? What's more, I'm not really sure the women cooking in those villages hate it as much as you put on them. That's not to say we don't all deserve self-determination but the story we were sold, of ultimate freedom for everyone, is just a new wage-slavery for everyone. Lest y…

> You do realize that capitalism co-opts everything and that women entering the workforce led to two people now earning what a single person used to? ... in the US maybe. Other places are arguably way more progressive in their equality between men and women, and do not have this problem either. (the lesson from this should be that the USA has multiple problems, not all of which stem from lack of equality, one of whic…

Elsewhere the entire family is earning less than a single person earns in the US

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#410

Post by touisteur » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:52 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #309

dredmorbius wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boundaries are a function of respect, assertion, community support, physical barriers, and distance. Distance and cutting off contact (restraining order if necessary) are profoundly effective boundaries.

No amount of distance is a boundary. People can travel, use cell phones, or any other method to get past distance. It is only a logistical complication. Psychological and emotional boundaries are required. Cutting off contact by itself is not enough. You have to communicate that you are cutting off contact. That's what establishes the boundary. In many cases you won't get a restraining order if you haven't establishe…

I agree with you, seeing how even my spouse's 16h-drive-away mother is still managing to insert herself into her child's life several times a day. I can see on my wife's face she's been talking to her mother when I get home. Even with new recent boundaries set (we're not visiting anymore, no more answering the phone or WhatsApp 33 times a day and then when not answering right away having other family call to argue that you're abandoning your family, fuck all of them), and I feel my spouse has made tremendous strides there, the mum is still finding ways to do this.

Downright psychological abuse.