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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

401–410 of 717 posts

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#401
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've never done this sort of thing before: there's a huge market for these "external consultants". Their unstated job (and reputations) are as whitewashing firms. You hire them to ensure there is "no evidence" of anything done wrong. The primary purpose is to create a credible defense in lawsuits but PR purposes are also common. Firms that find problems suddenly see their business dry up because most companies d…

To repeat the grandparent, what else can they do? Many of the "issues" bought up in this article aren't even problematic. It says John Russ left because Armstrong took public stance that he wanted Coinbase to focus on crypto space stuff. Coinbase's stance there is fair, reasonable and moral. It is desirable that some companies just do what it says on the tin. If Russ had a reason for quitting that was race-related th…

> Coinbase's stance there is fair, reasonable and moral

this is a self-evident conclusion being hawked as a premise, and the rest of the comment doesn't do much to mold this premise into an argument

> If Russ had a reason for quitting that was race-related then the NYT didn't uncover it.

There's an unfalsifiability in this rhetoric, because someone leaving for race-related reasons in an industry that either: a) has "subtle racists" b) is funded by "subtle racists" c) functionally aids and/or abets "subtle racists" through inaction

would be incentivized to not specify these things, as these industries (finance and crypto) optimize for relationships almost as much (if not ==) to the amount they optimize for merit. And that's not even getting into clauses baked into employment termination contracts. So you have a scenario where you can't actually "prove" race was a primary motivator for quitting because: a) if it were a "subtle racist" co-worker, they're probably using euphemism a2) if they're a "not subtle racist" co-worker, it would embarrass the employer for keeping that person on the book swhen the reputational cost exceeds the cost of sourcing and hiring someone who's not a not subtle racist" b) If the person wants to work in tech again, relationships will likely be burned as a direct or indirect result of airing out a company's dirty laundry c) Could be sued for violating non-disparagement clauses (prices out anyone who doesn't have the security to burn the bridge between them and a growth industry)

If the point of your comment was to use a number of premises that aren't empirical, and border on dogmatic, then I misunderstood, and apologize for trying to search for rhetoric where it was not intended to be found.

If the purpose of the statements above where to be rhetorical or logical, then we're getting into a place where we're asking for evidence that would be difficult for someone with said evidence to do without them, say, being financially and occupationally secure enough to burn the bridges between them and: - Coinbase - Coinbase's Investors - Coinbase's Investors' LPs - Coinbase's Investors' companies - Every other company that either doesn't question whether they are less meritocratic than they believe, or doesn't question whether or not they can replace the problematic superstar employees

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#402
Dear CEO, practice what you preach,

> Default to trust: We assume positive intent amongst our teammates, and assume ignorance over malice. We have each other’s backs.

> some of what I’ve written above will be misinterpreted, whether accidentally or on purpose. [1]

If you assume positive intent then no one would misinterpret your words "on purpose".

[1] https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-comp...

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#403
post #338

[Thank you for all your advice -- it's greatly appreciated. I've edited this post since it included a few personal details that I don't want permanently attached to my account on here. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.]

the article is from an extremely biased source, done in the midst of 'social justice' trend running out of steam, I'd just ignore it.

Think long term.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far left politics is an extremist. For example, if you criticize BLM for looting, you will be labeled racists. Looting small shop owners makes no sense. Many shop owners are even black. This happened in Seattle where many shop owners support BLM. You might say, well, that was an exception. But Noah Trevor (an influential person) also justified looting because police breaks social contract first. Now why would you loo…

@slg: I believe CB has internally discouraged politics in the workplace not related to the mission since before 2020

[deleted]

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#405
post #395
post #260

frankly its a little surprising to me how quickly some people in this comment section are to instantly dismiss the experiences of the people in this article yes the truth is shades of gray that article doesn't really give any answers to, but the unwillingness of others in these comments to even consider the possibility of some racism, discrimination, etc. experienced by others is just disheartening

There's so much push-back because the answer always seems to be "discriminate against non-black candidates to improve diversity" or "allow political propaganda to be openly preached in your organization".

Precisely. It is going to be difficult for people to convince tech employees that the industry needs to change if your two methods of change are either discriminating against said employees during hiring or turning the workplace into a political powderkeg.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#406
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it difficult to conceive how one could work at/manage a mainstream cryptocurrency company and be racist. Both empirically (it's the most multicultural tech scene I ever witnessed), and in principles (one of the core tenets of crypto is precisely eliminating discrimination), crypto would be among the most counter productive fields for a racist to spend their time on. Of course I'm not discounting the fact that…

I think it's helpful here to examine the conception of a racist. Most racists don't identify as such and have a racist agenda they consciously act on. In these cases, it's baked in through various experiences into the subconscious, and rationalized away in many ways. Maybe it's eugenics, maybe it's media bias, maybe it's simply a personal preference, and they think they don't let it affect their decisions. > it's the…

> Coinbase's own (unrefuted) numbers show they are far worse than other tech companies. Where is your conception based off of?

They are (were?) at 3% vs 6% average, on small absolute numbers. Not great but certainly within margin of forgiveness.

My conception is based on the scene as a whole, which is extremely international. Look at the public personalities in crypto vs. the wider VC tech scene. It's possible Coinbase is a pocket of prejudice, but it would be an exception.

> stated principles and actual beliefs/actions often don't match in tech.

I agree, but this isn't just a principle here, the mechanics of crypto themselves prevent racial, gender, socioeconomic bias. You can't say one thing and do the other when the code is open source and is the main UI. That's the difference with things like big-tech's empty "privacy pledges" for instance, here the bad thing is made actually structurally inconvenient.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#407
post #260

frankly its a little surprising to me how quickly some people in this comment section are to instantly dismiss the experiences of the people in this article yes the truth is shades of gray that article doesn't really give any answers to, but the unwillingness of others in these comments to even consider the possibility of some racism, discrimination, etc. experienced by others is just disheartening

The fault here lies with our society granting far too much power to people claiming victimhood. Being a victim is now an actively sought-after position because of the rewards it yields. We’ve completely perverted the incentives. So now, in order to protect ourselves against bad faith actors, we have to be extremely skeptical of victimhood claims. I agree, it is sad.

The problem is that if you are skeptical of the victims’ claims, you are accused as unempathetic or intolerant. Such a mentality is antithetical to “innocent until proven guilty.”

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#408
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blog post about leaving politics at the door was in response to the death of Floyd and some employees upset about their perceived "silence" of upper management, where more woke companies did speak up. So it's relevant and provides context to that policy of focusing on company mission, instead of making statements about racial inequality, police brutality, and unfair societies. You are entitled to political though…

It's very odd how people who openly express deeply-racist sentiments (as your previous comment repeating lies about George Floyd does) get so offended when accused of being racist.

What lies?

> Floyd was a career criminal unworthy of sainthood or role modeling.

Floyd was arrested for a home invasion, where a 1-year-old baby was present, and he threatened a woman to tell her where the money and drugs was hidden, by pressing a gun to her stomach. After that he was arrested and processed 8 times for crimes related to drugs and theft. The day of his arrest he tried to pay with a counterfeit bill. After his death, Floyd was witlessly treated as some martyr, killed at the hands of racist violent police, and portrayed as a role model for all black people and the struggles they go through, just trying to turn his life around.

> dying from a self-inflicted fentanyl overdose

Handwritten notes of a law enforcement interview with Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, say Floyd had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl in his system.

"If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3," Baker told investigators.

> and resisting arrest

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/4/george-floyd...

Offended that you brand me with racism for telling you an unpleasant truthful interpretation? No, I think me and my wife can live with that. But a little scared, yes. You can accuse me and others of deeply-racist sentiment, and that accusation seems enough to financially and socially damage me. At least give me a "fair" trial: Show me where I lied. Or these racist accusations hold as much water as those in the Coinbase article, and are exposed for the bloody clubs they really are.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#409
post #305

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

I'm glad you spoke up, and maybe I and others should've. There are some kinds of topics that I can immediately guess will invite certain kinds of comments on HN, and I've learned to just take a deep breath and ignore them. (If it gets really bad, I go catch up on that other Web site that does over-the-top criticism of HN, so that I don't feel like the only one.) On rare occasions, I've tried to engage some of the, bu…

Actually, the comments are a fairly accurate reflection of the tech industry and especially in places like Silicon Valley and should not be casually ignored.

The sheer amount of ignorance and justifications for racism expressed on HN, while baffling at times, is actually characteristic of the tech industry, especially in places like Silicon Valley / Bay Area, and while expressed here anonymously, in the real world, there's no shortage of clever "Machiavellians" at tech companies (like Emilie Choi and Kim Milosevich at Coinbase) able to simultaneously pay lip service to "diversity" while also crafting narratives that serve to only further the toxic culture of victim blaming and racism towards unrepresented groups in tech.

In fact, many of the ignorant and racist comments in HN are likely being made and/or given the silent nod by prominent tech founders, along with entire HR departments, PR departments, fellow coworkers, tech leads, product managers, etc.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#410
post #58
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What context would exonerate Coinbase of fostering an environment that results in 75% of its Black employees feeling discriminated against? And if that context existed, why didn't Coinbase mention it in their preemptive rebuttal?

How about the CEO refusing to align with far left politics? Whether you think that is good or bad, that could well be the reason for them leaving, but it doesn't actually mean that there was overt racism.

That’s the problem. Black lives mattering is a political issue only to those of privilege. I can’t believe we’re actually having political debate if certain people’s lives should matter or not.
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