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2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

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Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#401

Post by rsynnott »

runeks wrote: post #201
heipei wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched and read multiple reviews and Dave2D seems to be the only one who tried to quantify the throttling to some extent, all the others only had useless statements like "The Pro will probably be able to sustain unthrottled workloads for longer thanks to it's active cooling" - No shit, sherlock. For me the fact that it only throttles after 8-9 minutes (!) of heavy use is going to be the deciding factor that will a…

Couldn't the Pro just turn on its fans after 8-9 minutes (to avoid throttling), thus giving the best of both worlds?

I assume it does. My 13" 2016 MBP doesn't turn on its fans much unless it's busy.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#402

Post by chipotle_coyote »

romanoderoma wrote: post #378
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that backwards compatibility may not even be necessary, given Rosetta's performance. Sure Apple is using lots of tricks, but if Microsoft or any Linux project could get even somewhat close...

Just as testimony, it probably doesn't mean much, but bakcwards compatibility you either have it or you don't, there's no middle ground Apple is one of the most capitalistic companies out there, they want you to buy new stuff and they'll try everything they can to force users to upgrade sooner or later The story is this: a friend of mine is a well respected illustrator and he has been a long time Mac user (at least s…

> He owns a license for Photoshop 6

Uh, I'm guessing you mean CS6 rather than Photoshop 6, the program that came out in 2000.

In any case, Adobe's help page[1] currently reads, "As Creative Suite 6 is no longer sold or supported, platform or language exchanges are not available for it." Since they're certainly not selling or supporting versions older than CS6, it's unlikely your friend is going be able to keep Photoshop CS6 by buying a new PC laptop. (And he sure as hell ain't gonna be able to get a copy of Photoshop 6 to run on Windows 10.)

> Apple is one of the most capitalistic companies out there, they want you to buy new stuff and they'll try everything they can to force users to upgrade sooner or later

That's not wrong, but s/Apple/Adobe and the sentiment is still true. I suppose he'll save money if he gets a cheaper-than-Apple PC laptop, but I don't think he's gonna avoid paying for Creative Cloud.

[1] https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/exchange-...

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#403

Post by toast0 »

criddell wrote: post #355
aero-glide wrote: post #90

I hope Apple allows us to install the OS of our choice. The battery life is impressive but I refuse to not use Linux.

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on macOS?

Have a TCP stack with synflood protection? (The mac stack was copied from FreeBSD in 2001, before syncookies/syncache were added, and not meaningfully pulled since)

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#404

Post by klelatti »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #387
romanoderoma wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as testimony, it probably doesn't mean much, but bakcwards compatibility you either have it or you don't, there's no middle ground Apple is one of the most capitalistic companies out there, they want you to buy new stuff and they'll try everything they can to force users to upgrade sooner or later The story is this: a friend of mine is a well respected illustrator and he has been a long time Mac user (at least s…

I've used Photoshop CS6 on both Sierra and High Sierra. It's ever-so-slightly more crash-prone than on older OS's, but totally usable. It launches on Mojave as well, so I'm pretty sure it works, but I haven't personally used it for any length of time. Catalina is what killed it. IMO, backwards compatibility in OSX/macOS was perfectly decent for a long time. Most software compiled for Intel that wasn't doing something…

It's odd isn't it because if they invested a little bit in Catalina and Rosetta they could probably have had a great backwards compatibility story even in a few years time - but it's just not in the DNA I guess.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#405

Post by romanoderoma »

ogre_codes wrote: post #318
vel0city wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cheapest MacBook Air with an M1 chip is $1,000. The cheapest Mac Pro with an M1 chip is $1,300. I don't consider a $1,000+ laptop "entry level" or "low end". These are high-end machines.

At some point you have to recognize that different product lines and market segments have different entry points. Otherwise you end up comparing everything to the Raspberry Pi, and every computer is "High-End".

Well, it depends

The Renault Zoe EV and Tesla Model 3 have the same price.

The Renault Zoe is very low end compared to a Tesla, what make them cost the same?

An EV includes technology that is very costly and even a middle end car ends up costing like a base offer in a higher segment (because the Zoe EV is the premium offer in their segment)

You can't get any lower than that

A Zoe with an ICE engine costs in fact 10k less.

The same exact car.

There is no equivalent for Tesla, Tesla does not make cars in that segment and even if they could, they won't do it.

Said in other words: a low end Mac costs and has specs of a high end machine

Highly castrated from the manufacturer (only 16GB of RAM tops?) but definitely not low end, not even for Apple

It's their base offer for the high end segment

Which is very different from saying it's a low end machine.

Their aren't low end, they are simply not premium (there isn't going to be a big difference in performances between the two, only a different positioning, equipment and less artificial limitations from the manufacturer)

They are like AMD K6 CPUs that you could overclock using a pencil

The conclusions of this review support the idea that the specs of the Mac mini are not far from what we could expect from the pro models

> In the new Macbook Pro, we expect the M1 to showcase similar, if not identical performance to what we’ve seen on the new Mac mini

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#406

Post by andy_ppp »

matteopey wrote: post #266
jeswin wrote: post #162

This is as much a ringing endorsement of AMD Ryzen as it is of the M1. The 15W 4800U is just as impressive as the M1, and the performance per watt gap seems small enough to bridge with AMDs upcoming 5nm switch.

Not only that, but also the 4800U is Zen 2. The Zen 3 mobile processor (series 5000) are not here yet.

Yes, will Zen 3 give these mobile parts a 19% boost? That would be incredible if so...

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#407

Post by snowwrestler »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #379
Tagbert wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 12” MacBook could not be updated to newer Intel chipsets due to thermal issues. The single port was also a limitation. Once Apple upgraded the Air to retina, a large part of the market for the 12” was lost. They were too close to each other and cross-competed except for the super portable use cases which was not large enough. This model of Air is obviously a transition product with new guts in an old shell. I sus…

I'm also hoping for thinner bezels as the current models' ones are just huge compared to Dell's XPS line for example. It's slowly becoming obvious that the design has barely changed since 2016 or so. The 16" model was a step in the right direction, but it's still not even close to what Dell is delivering. It'd be amazing if they managed to squeeze a 13" screen into the old 12" form factor - you'd still get great batt…

It seems like Apple is capable of it—look at the bezels on a new iPhone or iPad. But it would certainly require a whole new shell, which probably takes a while for Apple to design and ramp up because of all the machining involved.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#408

Post by AsyncAwait »

ogre_codes wrote: post #279
Aperocky wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this. Imagine if we had the same hardware but designed for linux, I'd pay a premium for that. Although hardware specific software from Apple is probably a big part of that draw too. I don't think we're ever going to see Linux prioritize a certain hardware and put in the effort to make it integrate as well as macs does.

I don't really get this. I switched to MacOS because it's fundamentally BSD with a nice/ well integrated GUI. Almost all of the good OSS I love is supported nearly perfectly. Perhaps I'm a bit jaded after running into too much bullshit trying to get Linux running well on laptops in the 90s and 00s. Since I made the move I never wax nostalgic for the "Good Ole Days" of fighting for hours to get Wifi working properly.…

> Since I made the move I never wax nostalgic for the "Good Ole Days" of fighting for hours to get Wifi working properly.

I can assure you that you didn't have to do that for quite some time and it's not that which people are looking for.

- Am looking for a system that lets me run any damn thing I want without pipups, blocks, firewalls, warnings, requiring signed binaries etc.

I am looking to run and develop for the same environment I end up deploying on.

- I want a system that has native docker support, systemd and makes updating the whole system or installing pretty much anything as easy as one terminal command.

- It's important for me to trust my system; where I know no single entity has more power over the machine than myself and no secret upgrades I didn't desire are going to be pushed my way.

- There's no telemetry in my ideal system, certainly not at the system level and patched out at the app level where possible.

- I want a system that is open, configurable, respects the four freedoms and is community ran.

macOS cannot give me this, no matter how "fundamentally BSD" it is. I value the freedom that free software gives that no closed-source BSD ever could.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#409

Post by djxfade »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #387
romanoderoma wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as testimony, it probably doesn't mean much, but bakcwards compatibility you either have it or you don't, there's no middle ground Apple is one of the most capitalistic companies out there, they want you to buy new stuff and they'll try everything they can to force users to upgrade sooner or later The story is this: a friend of mine is a well respected illustrator and he has been a long time Mac user (at least s…

I've used Photoshop CS6 on both Sierra and High Sierra. It's ever-so-slightly more crash-prone than on older OS's, but totally usable. It launches on Mojave as well, so I'm pretty sure it works, but I haven't personally used it for any length of time. Catalina is what killed it. IMO, backwards compatibility in OSX/macOS was perfectly decent for a long time. Most software compiled for Intel that wasn't doing something…

In Catalina, Apple dropped 32 bit support. And in the same process dropped a lot of Frameworks that had been deprecated for ages. 64 bit software that didn't rely on deprecated Frameworks continue to function

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#410

Post by romanoderoma »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #402
romanoderoma wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as testimony, it probably doesn't mean much, but bakcwards compatibility you either have it or you don't, there's no middle ground Apple is one of the most capitalistic companies out there, they want you to buy new stuff and they'll try everything they can to force users to upgrade sooner or later The story is this: a friend of mine is a well respected illustrator and he has been a long time Mac user (at least s…

> He owns a license for Photoshop 6 Uh, I'm guessing you mean CS6 rather than Photoshop 6, the program that came out in 2000. In any case, Adobe's help page[1] currently reads, "As Creative Suite 6 is no longer sold or supported, platform or language exchanges are not available for it." Since they're certainly not selling or supporting versions older than CS6, it's unlikely your friend is going be able to keep Photos…

I'm talking about Photoshop 6

That's why I said "MacOS Sierra can't even run CS6"

Technically in Italy if you bought a license and the manufacturer won't support it anymore, you can use it on another platform even downloading an illegal copy.

As long as you have the original license.

That's the same reason why you can listen to mp3s if you own the original record, you have the right to keep a copy and the right to use it even if the manufacturer stop supporting it, because you bought it in perpetuity when you bought the product

That's why I stay away from the new licenses that give you none of those rights

And that's why backwards compatibility sometimes is what drives people choices

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