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Why we are suing the Administration

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Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#401

Post by thrownaway954 »

fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

"I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship"

not gonna happen because of this tiiiiiiiiny thing called money. china has over a billion people. if you want to be in that market, you play by their rules. it's not surprising how people can change their morals with the right dollar amount.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#402

Post by brandonmenc »

smt88 wrote: post #332
brandonmenc wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not to take away the rights of their owners Why not? We have granted ourselves the right to limit the rights of corporations. The individual owners can keep their individual rights.

The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that corporations have 1st Amendment rights. You have to remember that "corporation" can mean any group organized for a purpose. It can be Exxon, but it can also be Planned Parenthood or AARP. People who can't speak loudly enough by themselves have a right to organize into a corporation, pool their money, and speak loudly together. You can argue that a business should not be bot…

> corporations have 1st Amendment rights.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forbidding them from censoring user content orthogonal to this?

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#403

Post by tzs »

tboyd47 wrote: post #399
fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

If they would just repeal section 230 already, then the plug would be pulled from all these companies and China would no longer have any influence over what is said on the internet. What we are in is a sort of techno-mercantilism where governments enlist large companies to deliver geopolitical influence in exchange for protection.

I fail to see how section 230 affects this it all.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#404

Post by gruez »

dalbasal wrote: post #186
ArchD wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that CPC gets to ban Google, Facebook, Twitter & a ton of other non-Chinese online companies but the US government does not get to ban Chinese online companies, even in the name of fairness both in terms of trade and information flow? Chinese companies have to obey the CPC's orders that infringe users' privacy. Whether or not it is right for a country's government to spy on its citizens, the current ar…

Why does the CPC ban Google, Facebook, Twitter & a ton of other non-Chinese online companies? They want control over media, especially political content. They want to make sure speech, affiliation and such is under their control. Are you saying the US should adopt this approach? Trade fairness is a red herring.

>Are you saying the US should adopt this approach?

Is this what's happening right now? Is there political speech being conducted on tiktok that the president doesn't like? Can the same speech be found on other platforms (eg. twitter)?

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#405

Post by gruez »

ryosuke wrote: post #130
euix wrote: post #100

Interesting article in Bloomberg just now: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-01/bytedance... . The kicker is at the end: “He thought that by making a promise to follow international standards or rules he would be able to escape the regulation or the kind of pressure from the American government,” said Ding. “But I think now he realizes he might have been wrong and that if he doesn’t want to sell the com…

Exactly. My understanding is that ByteDance has tried to maintain some distance with the Chinese government in the past, but this pressure from the US essentially forces it to reverse course. It's antithetical to the US's purported objective of promoting a more liberalized market economy in China (though I suppose that was never something this administration really cared about).

>It's antithetical to the US's purported objective of promoting a more liberalized market economy in China (though I suppose that was never something this administration really cared about).

You're missing the context behind why that policy was in place. A big part of that was the hope that China would democratize in the process. Clearly that has not happened so it makes sense to pull the plug. No point giving out free concessions to trade partners that aren't willing to reciprocate.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#406

Post by kube-system »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #382
vorpalhex wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries arrest people who are breaking windows, setting things on fire, engaging in riots after being told to disperse and illegally carrying weapons. All of the people who were arrested were charged and then released (pending bail, recognizance, etc per Washington law). You may feel those actions are just, but being just does not make them legal.

Flip the script and it’s TikTok just complying with what you see as unjust laws, but they are laws of the CCP nonetheless.

Yes, the issue with TikTok has never been TikTok itself, and has always been the government institutions that have overwhelming control over their governance. China shouldn't be violating the human rights of their own people, and they definitely shouldn't be exporting the oppression of those rights to the rest of the world.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#407

Post by yibg »

vorpalhex wrote: post #384
colejohnson66 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flip the script and it’s TikTok just complying with what you see as unjust laws, but they are laws of the CCP nonetheless.

Which is why we're banning them using the tool for that situation (a foreign company who is acting in a way unaligned to the interests of US citizens) and not arresting them. We are under no duty to allow the CCP to act within our borders.

If we ban any company that complies with laws we don't like, taken to the extreme doesn't that lead to every country banning companies from every other country that doesn't have laws that map exactly to their own?

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#408

Post by kube-system »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #389
vorpalhex wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why we're banning them using the tool for that situation (a foreign company who is acting in a way unaligned to the interests of US citizens) and not arresting them. We are under no duty to allow the CCP to act within our borders.

Then why are we singling our TikTok? Why not ban any Chinese company from operating within our borders?

TikTok hasn't been singled out. The US has pretty much done the same for all Chinese communication tech that operates in the US: Huawei, ZTE, WeChat.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#409

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

kome wrote: post #225
baxtr wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of context would surely help to put this comment into perspective.

They jailed Catalan politicians and activists after winning a referendum for the independence of Catalonia: https://catalansalmon.com/campanyes/llibertat/?cvid=2

From what I was able to get from talking to people from Barcelona, anti-independence citizens were viewing the referendum as illegal and didn't attend. So it's no wonder that the separatists "won" the referendum, but it's legitimacy is rather questionable.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#410

Post by kube-system »

sct202 wrote: post #231
ISL wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part where you can speak your mind without consequence from the government.

Freedom of speech is not the same in the rest of the world outside of America. Lots of European countries have hate speech laws in place where you can be convicted of crimes for speaking your mind if it's hateful. The EU has been pressuring large tech companies into self complying https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/28/16380526/eu-hate-speech-l... But just the other day, there was a huge post with lots of uproar about ho…

All of the western world agrees on the freedom of the press and the protection of political speech -- and that those things are necessary for the protections of human rights.
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