The amount of fuckery American police get away with frankly really amazes me. These are humans, not animals. How did everything even get to this situation where police think potential criminals can be treated like slaves and random shit injected in their bodies.
Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
401–410 of 435 posts
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of that is seen through the filter of the media. They have a story that they want to sell. They need to grab eyeballs. They are also political, and so they want to push what helps advance their own political goals, even if it tears the country apart. Specifically, every one of these is subject to selection bias: "nearly always white" "unnecessarily violent tactics" "nearly always Black" You won't see a news repor…
Of course "the media" focuses on incidents where cops abuse their power. "The media" also exalts policemen and soldiers as heroes, with countless reminders to thank our "heroes" and millions of hours of Hollywood entertainment devoted to showcasing heroic soldiers and cops. Much of the media denounces the protests as well. A different sort of bias comes into play with word choice, using "victims" to refer to people w…
Do you think there are no black cops abusing their power, or that there are no white victims? It's hidden from you by the media because it doesn't fit the narrative of racist white cops abusing innocent black victims.
Statistics paint a different picture. Given that there is a police response to crime, a white criminal is more likely to be shot by the police.
I have seen plenty of public outcry over police violence when the suspect was behaving violently. The riots in Ferguson are the obvious example. Evidence of powder burns and of DNA in the car show that the BLM story was clearly false. The evidence is consistent with the story given by the cop. It's been like that for every case that I've researched, so at this point I'm done with research. It's always the same, more or less.
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? Especially not the ideological flamewar style? We're trying for something other than scorched earth here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site to heart, we'd be grateful.
They're being completely civil. This does not at all sound like an "ideological flame war." Racism in society isn't an ideologocal point. It's reality. They're pointing out facts that are uncomfortable. If the "spirit" of HN is truly about intellectual curiosity around things that relate to tech and entrepreneurship, then HN needs to embrace the fact that society ultimately rules over all -- most certainly tech and b…
Usually I'm responding to an account's recent history, not just one comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24253754, for example, affects the priors.
HN has been having lots of discussion about racism, just as the rest of society has been (or rather, societies, since many countries are represented here). If your question ("Is HN a place where discussion about social problems [is] not allowed") comes up, that can only be because of unfamiliarity with the history. If you want to get more familiar, HN Search is a great resource (see the box at the bottom of every page).
The process of how we moderate political and ideological topics on HN is pretty stable by now. If you want to know what it is, check out the past explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.... There's a lot there; you could start with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902396.
People often feel like their most-important topic is under-represented or outright suppressed on HN. Even the most common topic feels "censored" to some people (see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23624962). This is an unfortunate consequence of frontpage space being the scarcest resource on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am a strong believer in the right to have a gun in your own home and the various “Castle” laws. If you break into my house or try to take my car while I am in it, I am going to assume you mean me harm. Shoot first then call the cops. Do you know how absurd this sounds to people in actual civilized countries? Kind of amazing how many of you Americans are living in some Wild West fantasy.
Do the police in your country have guns? (Trick question. The police in every country, even Japan, have guns.) If an armed attacker breaks into your home, would not the first thing you do be to call someone to bring a gun over quickly to protect you and bring an end to the risk? This is no different than keeping a fire extinguisher in your home versus relying 100% on the fire brigade to protect you. Firearms are safe…
> Do the police in your country have guns? (Trick question. The police in every country, even Japan, have guns.)
No, please do your research
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're intoxicated on opioids, you are not going to be violently resisting arrest in the first place.
Not guaranteed
No, it's not guaranteed, it would depend on how intoxicated you were.
For the purposes of this discussion, I thought it was safe to assume we were talking about doses that could actually alter your behaviour; high doses of opioids do not make exactly for agresssive behaviour, while lower doses are unlikely to have an impact either way.
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
what and why? Specifically, what and why is insane and how is being an anesthesiologist relevant? Note, I don't think police should inject anyone with a substance (personally, I'd rather get shot with a bullet than involuntarily shot with an anesthetic), but how is being an anesthesiologist relevant? The question: "should cops direct paramedic to administer K shots" is an ethics, or a religious, question. Not a medic…
> how is being an anesthesiologist relevant? Uhhhh anesthesiologists are experts in administratering sedatives to humans safely. The connection here seems pretty obvious to me...
If you re-read my comment, you'll see that "administrating sedatives to humans safely" is specifically what I consider irrelevant.
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. "Soldiers use even better bullets" Almost universally not true. The Geneva convention prohibits many types of bullets that are allowed for civilian use. Hollow points, for example. And there are good reasons why they're allowed for civilians and not war. 2. It's not fair to give us a sanctimonious lecture about how great your country's police procedures are without stating your country. Put up, or drop the lecture…
I believe soldiers have bullets with a lot more kinetic energy behind them than bullets fired by ordinary police guns; that said, I'm not a gun person, so maybe a police small arms shot is more effective against people than one fired by an assault rifle. Besides, the policy I described is what (AFAIK) most of Europe implements at the moment (might be all of Europe even), including Germany. I don't quite see why stati…
"I don't know where the US police falls on that spectrum, though reading US news makes it seem like they do have some serious issues currently. "
Well that's the problem, isn't it? You read news coverage of the US. The observational bias there is huge. Consider:
The US is a country of 320 million. As of Brexit, larger than the EU and homogeneously English speaking with homogeneous press and institutions. The EU is smaller with 23 languages or so and a patchwork of everything.
So if a Eastern EU cop beats the shit out of a homosexual in jail who would ever find out?
At least in Greece it's pretty well documented that cops sodomized Albanian migrant workers with broomsticks. But you wouldn't know that unless you happen to have an Albanian wife who lived in Greece.
An Italian squad of carabinieri was just disbanded because it turned out to be running a drug dealing and extortion racket. This is literally current news. Have you heard about it?
Spanish police took COVID as an opportunity to abuse their power. National scandal in Spain, I haven't read any non-Spanish (and I mean Spain Spanish, not Spanish language) news about it.
In Hesse police computers were used to find out the personal details of a left-wing politician to send them neo-Nazi affiliated threats. Armed agents of the Germany with neo-Nazi links is quite the scandal today in Germany.
Notice the bias in my examples:
Spanish police - I'm half Spanish
Italian police - I'm half Italian
Greek police - My wife is Greek speaking Albanian.
German police - I suspect you're German so I specifically googled German police abuse
Notice I don't have specific French police abuse examples... because I don't speak French! I'm sure a google search will quickly inform me of Algerians young men beat to a pulp by a gendarme.
In general, as EU citizen living in the US for over a decade, I find that the EU perspective of the US couldn't be more wrong.
[EDIT] grammer
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. "Soldiers use even better bullets" Almost universally not true. The Geneva convention prohibits many types of bullets that are allowed for civilian use. Hollow points, for example. And there are good reasons why they're allowed for civilians and not war. 2. It's not fair to give us a sanctimonious lecture about how great your country's police procedures are without stating your country. Put up, or drop the lecture…
I believe soldiers have bullets with a lot more kinetic energy behind them than bullets fired by ordinary police guns; that said, I'm not a gun person, so maybe a police small arms shot is more effective against people than one fired by an assault rifle. Besides, the policy I described is what (AFAIK) most of Europe implements at the moment (might be all of Europe even), including Germany. I don't quite see why stati…
As an aside, about bullets.
Sure, the military has access to more powerful rounds. Aircraft cannons, for example. But they don't typically load the soldier's rifles with rounds more powerful than what a civilian can buy.
- Soldiers' bullets really don't have more kinetic energy than civilian ones. For one, a civilian can always hand load, and get whatever K.E. they want (until they blow up their gun's chamber). Also, civilians can buy military rounds. Either surplus or whatever.
Smaller bullets means soldiers can carry more ammo. Not as important in the trenches of Europe, but crucial in the jungle colonial wars, I mean freedom wars, since WW2.
- Also, the military only wants a bullet powerful enough make it through any reasonable personal armor. The idea is that a bullet that isn't powerful enough to exit the body will cause more damage by tumbling inside and/or be more difficult to remove -> it's a way around the Geneva conventions that mandates rounds hold themselves together
- Third hunters, by law, have to use a bullet with a certain minimum K.E. The .30-06, for example, was initially used as a military round, but is today a popular deer hunting round. It has been replaced in the military by the much smaller, weaker, round used in the M-16.
The civilian .30-06 is considerably more powerful round than the AK-47's, whose round is considered too powerful for a modern rifle.
- Check out the perfectly legal, if expensive, .50 BMG.
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't see how you "reform" a culture like that. You do it through hard work on real reform at the local level, something that BLM (the organization) isn't really interested in. I don't agree with everything but the ideas outlined here https://www.joincampaignzero.org are a good start. Some communities are in much worse situation than others and I think new leadership is urgently needed in many of these places (i.…
> Instead of a civil police force you will end up with an ad-hoc collection of private security, thugs, violent gangs, protection rackets, and so on Uh... I don't think that's what I said, at all. I said we need new cops and a new law enforcement organization, because the old one is polluted beyond redemption.
Perhaps I assumed a bit too much. You did indeed suggest that everything had to be replaced as opposed to discarded. I don't see how that is practical in the real world though.
I still would argue that your generalization that all policing is broken is very dangerous rhetoric and I don't think it is true). Civil society exists in part because of a tacit assumption that the police are always there to "police". At some level we agree to be policed. The non-police outnumber the police so there has to be some basic agreement that people will behave for it to all work.
If you convince everyone that the police as a whole are irredeemably bad/evil/racist etc. you've destroyed that tacit agreement and that civil society breaks down. We are seeing glimpses of that in the places where politicians and DAs have decided to put a pause on basic policing. A lot of people are discovering they don't have to behave.
Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny
#410Police should never be permitted to direct medical professionals to do anything to a person in their custody unless it is to save their life. Medical professionals should be hyper-trained on how to tell police “hell no” and to report their requests to an independent agency for investigation. There are other types of scenarios where out of control cops bully doctors and nurses into doing illegal things, two that I hav…
Don't forget psych evaluations - with the implication that they should be found unfit for release. This one is a favorite of "cops" that don't actually have authority to arrest people or no probable cause for it.