Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#401

Post by philjohn » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:27 AM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #248

ryanSrich wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is hilarious to me as someone that has hired devs from Europe for a while now. Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k when you can pay an experienced developer from Europe $100k? I honestly never understood it.

I’m a big remote work advocate and have worked with some amazing European engineers. That said, having worked as an engineer in the US office of a early stage startup with a European office, the 5-9 hour time difference is a not-insignificant impediment when you’re resource constrained and moving fast. Even with great communication and good management, having little overlap during the day for realtime conversations m…

At my last company (US on the east coast) I was the only remote member of the team, and the 5 hour time difference, although relatively small, and with significant work-day overlap, was still very difficult. Having to wait until the afternoon for a code review, staying online to support my team later.

It did mean that my mornings were totally free and I could get a lot done - so it swings both ways, but outsource everything to Europe isn't the panacea some people assume it to be.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#402

Post by 0xy » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:29 AM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #387

0xy wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment never suggested there are none who don't live there by choice. Of course, by choosing Europe, you surrender literally millions of dollars (in compounding retirement investments over decades). I specifically mean EU countries by the way, Switzerland and London are the only exceptions -- and even then the US is better.

> you surrender literally millions of dollars You don't. You spend those "millions" of dollars on ridiculously expensive medical care, on ridiculously expensive education, on car ownership, on... And in return you get worse infrastructure, worse medical care, worse ecology etc.

Education is a choice in our industry. I'm self taught and I'm paid the same as colleagues with PhDs.

As for medical care, all half decent tech employers provide comprehensive healthcare coverage.

I don't know what you've been reading, but unless healthcare costs $200,000 a year (it doesn't cost 1/10th of that), you're better off in the US.

As for "worse infrastructure", you'll have to be specific. There's crumbling infrastructure all over the US and Europe.

Worse medical care is also a stretch. In fact, in some areas (heart attacks and strokes, for example) the US is a world leader. [1]

I'll remind you that new grads in the US are often paid substantially more than senior level developers in the EU.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care...

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#403

Post by aliswe » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:30 AM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #350

cblconfederate wrote: post #162

One thing that is not often mentioned is these threads is how this is particularly beneficial for European workers. They live in cities that are already small and dense, generally don't depend on the office for their socialization, internet speeds are good (due to density probably) and family life is balanced. Plus a lot of them are already accustomed to working remotely. They 'll probably be able to compete for a lo…

My company forced me back into a windowless massive open office back in June, I handed in my notice yesterday to take a better paid 100% remote position with a company that has been 100% remote for years before this crisis. That it also comes with a substantial pay rise, zero travel and the opportunity to work on stuff I actually find interesting is just a gigantic cherry on the cake. It was by far the largest factor…

Had to look this up, "haemorrhage" meaning blood loss.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#404

Post by quickthrower2 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:31 AM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #350

cblconfederate wrote: post #162

One thing that is not often mentioned is these threads is how this is particularly beneficial for European workers. They live in cities that are already small and dense, generally don't depend on the office for their socialization, internet speeds are good (due to density probably) and family life is balanced. Plus a lot of them are already accustomed to working remotely. They 'll probably be able to compete for a lo…

My company forced me back into a windowless massive open office back in June, I handed in my notice yesterday to take a better paid 100% remote position with a company that has been 100% remote for years before this crisis. That it also comes with a substantial pay rise, zero travel and the opportunity to work on stuff I actually find interesting is just a gigantic cherry on the cake. It was by far the largest factor…

Windowless is the worse! Good on ya. We are human dammit.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#405

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

aliswe wrote: post #403

noir_lord wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company forced me back into a windowless massive open office back in June, I handed in my notice yesterday to take a better paid 100% remote position with a company that has been 100% remote for years before this crisis. That it also comes with a substantial pay rise, zero travel and the opportunity to work on stuff I actually find interesting is just a gigantic cherry on the cake. It was by far the largest factor…

Had to look this up, "haemorrhage" meaning blood loss.

[deleted]

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#406

Post by aliswe » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:35 AM UTC

heyitsguay wrote: post #250

strictfp wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so sure about that. I know plenty offices in Stockholm with free food, drinks and entertainment for employees.

This is a total tangent, but I'm an American with a partner from Stockholm, and we're interested in maybe moving over there when that is possible again. Do you have any suggestions or resources for getting to understand the tech scene around Stockholm, especially AI/computer vision stuff? Thanks!

I'm not really sure that I would be the best person to answer but if you would like to ask anything please do. I've work with over 250 clients and agencies over the years mostly in stockholm. Why not make it an Ask HN?

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#407

Post by lucidguppy » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:43 AM UTC

bredren wrote: post #278

digianarchist wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm OK with this. WFH means I can cut my mortgage costs by 50%.

Or not buy / maintain a car and spend hours a week commuting.

Its a large chunk of your life they're giving back to you. It will help cut carbon too.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#408

Post by antihero » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:44 AM UTC

iso947 wrote: post #371

throwaway1777 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s useful to actually talk to people even if it’s over video chat.

The point being if someone in NY works 9-17, someone in UK May be happy working 13-22

I think it would be rare to find someone in the UK that would be happy to work when at the time that everyone else is going to be in the pub.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#409

Post by Aeolun » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

freetanga wrote: post #361

TheReveller wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in Switzerland, the 13th month wasn't a bonus, they simply took your salary, divided that by 13, that was your monthly payment and you got 2 of them in December. Also many bills are due on the first of January for the whole next year e.g. insurance. So it was kinda like a holiday and large bill windfall, but it wasn't additional to salary. That was just one company, maybe other countries or employers are dif…

This. You know your yearly salary (gross and net). Then you get it in different schemes depending on country and company. Some I now are: - 14 payments (extras in June and December) - 12+1 in December - 12 + 2 x 0.5 (one extra in June and the other In December) I believe dates were pick to match Xmas and Summer Holidays, two big spending anomalies Anyhow you always negotiate yearly gross.

Not in the Netherlands. I always negotiated monthly gross. Then your 13th month and summer bonus suddenly actually feel like bonuses, even if the company includes it in the full yearly amount.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#410

Post by zhte415 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

strictfp wrote: post #215

user5994461 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European companies don't have equally nice office, free snacks or pay as top American companies. Companies that hire young driven workers and have a good environment can get a similar amount of overtime and the work all the time attitude.

Not so sure about that. I know plenty offices in Stockholm with free food, drinks and entertainment for employees.

Visited the Bloomberg office in London. If you rent a Bloomberg terminal they gave free training on multiple features. Encouraged to visit the cafeteria, all free for staff and clients with visitor pass. Good stuff. Salads, fruit, cakes, sandwiches.

Looked around.

No chairs. This was in vast contrast to my employer at the time where lunch was a practical siesta.

Ok.. "so you take this back to desk?" I asked someone.

Yes.

QED that.

For context this was early 2000s.