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Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

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Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#401

Post by crazygringo »

alchemyromcom wrote: post #139

I wish more people, especially tech CEOs, could understand the incredible sacrifice of time, money, and energy it takes to make an album people actually enjoy. Everything you listen to, unless you are willing to listen to raw demos, is a miracle. I've worked both as a sound engineer and and a software developer. It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. The way tech com…

> It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record.

That's apples-to-oranges. Obviously a "hit" anything is hard in any field, by definition. A hit app is just as hard (even harder, probably, since there are a lot less hit apps than hit songs).

But producing a single track? Seriously, it's not that hard. Yes, it takes a team of people and a lot of creativity and skill, but I don't know what this "incredible sacrifice" or "miracle" that is "more effort than you could ever imagine" is that you're talking about. It's a creative project like any other.

But that's not even the point of the article, which is simply to release tracks piecemeal and regularly rather than in an album only occasionally. There's nothing about everyone working "that much harder".

It sounds like you had a hard time in the biz, and I'm sorry. But I don't have any clue who the "geeks" are who "talk about the industry" that seems to bother you so much, and which doesn't seem to have anything to do with the article. I know a lot of software engineers who are also really into the indie music scene in Brooklyn and I think everyone does understand the work bands put into their music and their touring, and that most of the bands are never going to make it beyond attracting a few dozen or couple hundred audience members at any show, but they do it because they love it.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#402

Post by zebraflask »

senko wrote: post #368
hardtke wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend The Song Machine (Inside the Hit Factory) by John Seabrook. The author describes the modern reincarnation of the Brill Building that pumps out pop hits using methods that we would not call songwriting (Max Martin, Dr. Luke, etc.). The goal is to get you to listen to 30 seconds of a song (that counts as a spin on digital streaming services). They've decomposed the process into mass production of bac…

In a similar way, back in '88 KLF wrote tongue-in-cheek "manual" for writing a top pop song, a hilarious and cynical view into how a musical sausage is made: https://freshonthenet.co.uk/the-manual-by-the-klf/

Still hilarious.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#403

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

chrisseaton wrote: post #161
shakezula wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend was absolutely right. I never cared if people pirated my bands music (or later the bands that I was managing) because the real thing I wanted was them showing up at shows, buying merch, posting us on facebook, asking events to bring us on, etc... At a certain point, Taylor Swift and larger artists _do_ make a good chunk of change from their actual music sales, but it isn't a feasible strategy to rely on t…

I listen to a lot of music but I’d never go to a live show (can’t think of anything worse) and I’m not going to wear a branded t-shirt. How do they capture revenue from people like me in your model? Now I think about it I did once buy a video log of the production of an album. But that’s one artist from the thousands I listen to.

>How do they capture revenue from people like me in your model?

It's not like bands stopped selling CD's/BluRays's, collectible box-sets, stickers, pins, access to behind-the-scenes videos and mailing lists. But the most someone like you can do for an average band/performer is promote their art through any channels available. The most valuable resource you have is your attention.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#404

Post by bborud »

alchemyromcom wrote: post #139

I wish more people, especially tech CEOs, could understand the incredible sacrifice of time, money, and energy it takes to make an album people actually enjoy. Everything you listen to, unless you are willing to listen to raw demos, is a miracle. I've worked both as a sound engineer and and a software developer. It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. The way tech com…

The thing is: there is more talent available than there is available attention, and especially _shared attention_, to go around. Success means outcompeting other musicians for a finite amount of attention. It's a gamble - and there's a good chance you won't get the attention. Even if you did the last time.

Nobody is saying that it isn't hard work to create a record. That is a straw man.

But someone did get up on a stage and point out that monetization of your work will require a strategy that is adapted to reality. If you want financial success you have to do different things than before. You can get angry at it and wish this was 1983 again - or you can get cracking.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#405

Post by JAlexoid »

ponker wrote: post #272
adrr wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious what you think the optimal solution for music in today’s world with massive storage and high bandwidth. Spotify is paying 70% of revenue to artists. You have factor in piracy if the price is to high or the solution is inconvenient. The public has rejected DRM and songs are easily give away to their friends. Lastly, No one wants physical media.

Spotify is distributing 70% but $10/month is too little revenue for infinite music.

If they multiply it to what artists are demanding, I will just turn to FM radio with ads.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#406

Post by Marazan »

idlewords wrote: post #394
alchemyromcom wrote: post #139

I wish more people, especially tech CEOs, could understand the incredible sacrifice of time, money, and energy it takes to make an album people actually enjoy. Everything you listen to, unless you are willing to listen to raw demos, is a miracle. I've worked both as a sound engineer and and a software developer. It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. The way tech com…

The Beatles at the height of their fame put out two albums a year, while making a bunch of movies on top of it. That pace is inconceivable in 2020, but I've never understood why.

The current streaming renumeration system favours solo singer-songwriters to an almost unfathomable degree.

Multi writer bands (what you need for high output) are fucked by the revenue share model.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#407

Post by Animats »

Ok, musicians, you wanna be in a band, get your nose to the grindstone! We have a lot of streaming time to fill up, so quit goofing off!

The Beatles only produced about 10 hours of unique music in their entire career. Can't coast like that any more!

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#408

Post by JAlexoid »

IncRnd wrote: post #324
xwdv wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have some appreciation--even awe--for the art you enjoy. Haha, no. Artists aren’t some gift from God here to bestow the world with joy from the heavens that we should all marvel at. They are people who chose to learn a skill capable of outputting something suitable for consumption as entertainment. As such, it is their job to be putting out these works regularly, just like everyone else. Appreciation is nice, but d…

Art is the highest pinnacle of human achievement. Perhaps, not everything you call art was made with artistry or is artistic.

All non functional human expression is art - PERIOD.

Just because you may not like my perfectly polished cube and don't see the meaning I put into it - doesn't make it "not art".

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#409

Post by mikepurvis »

ng12 wrote: post #369
zjaffee wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what the CEO is saying, and it has been an increasing trend in music for a long time now, is moving even further away from large LP releases every few years. The existence of that medium of music doesn't make sense in the current year given how people actually go about consuming music. The way to keep fans engaged involves releasing EPs and Single on a regular basis, releasing a whole album only really makes…

> The existence of that medium of music doesn't make sense in the current year given how people actually go about consuming music. I'm not convinced. The standard 3-4 minute pop song came about because that's what could fit on one side of a 78. Albums came about because an LP (33 1/2) could fit roughly 40 minutes of music, or 10-12 of those songs. These formats proved to be a popular and effective even though the tec…

Interesting to note that the play duration of an LP was not seemingly the result of intentional design decisions around sound quality, speed, physical size, ease of manufacture, etc, but rather a bit of a historical accident arising from technology changes, and marketing missteps:

"When initially introduced, 12-inch LPs played for a maximum of about 23 minutes per side, 10-inchers for around 15... Economics and tastes initially determined which kind of music was available on each format. Recording company executives believed upscale classical music fans would be eager to hear a Beethoven symphony or a Mozart concerto without having to flip over multiple, four-minute-per-side 78s, and that pop music fans, who were used to listening to one song at a time, would find the shorter time of the 10-inch LP sufficient. As a result, the 12-inch format was reserved solely for higher-priced classical recordings and Broadway shows. Popular music continued to appear only on 10-inch records.

Their beliefs were wrong. By the mid-1950s, the 10-inch LP, like its similarly sized 78 rpm cousin, would lose the format war and be discontinued."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LP_record#Playing_time

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#410

Post by bmitc »

wolco wrote: post #309
bmitc wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is really diluting the difference between art and software, so much so that it's almost comical. I define art as the exploration of emotional expression, and software simply does not fit into that category except in the cases of using software as a tool or mechanism in the exploration. The "need" in creating art is often described by artists in that the act of creation is fulfilling an internal need. Writers, mu…

It is elitist to claim they are not the same. Software is the product of expression. Music is the product of expression. They both can use emotion when creating. They both can evoke emotion while experiencing. Who retires first debate: the famous musician or famous programmer is still unsettled. Classically an artist put themselves in difficult situations in order to grow as a person so the art can say more. Don't be…

I define art to be the exploration of emotional expression. If you disagree with that definition, that's fine, as the debate as to "what is art?" is certainly a valid one. But please note the discussion context. The original comments I've replied to are "software is equivalent to art", and I disagreed. There are vast differences. My assumption is that it is people involved in software making this claim, and that is where the elitism comes from.

> Software is the product of expression.

What emotional content are you expressing when you write software? When someone writes a book or music or paints a painting or live performs an art piece, they are expressing emotional content, feelings, stories, etc. Please view my other responses, as I don't want to repeat myself here, but art is different than " as an art", which relates to art as in craft, and it's also different from things being aesthetically pleasing.

If we're going to dilute the term of what art is so much, then it's pointless to just stop at "software is art", as we should then just say "everything is art" and stop using the word.

> They both can evoke emotion while experiencing.

That's a poor definition. If something simply evokes emotion, that doesn't make it art. Literally everything evokes emotions in humans.

> Who retires first debate: the famous musician or famous programmer is still unsettled.

It's usually not best to discuss edge cases and is better to stick with the general population. Your general software developer is going to be many times well off than your general artist.

> Classically an artist put themselves in difficult situations in order to grow as a person so the art can say more. Don't be angry at others making money because an artist has choosen a different path.

You're implying that artists intentionally suffer? Some artists may, but I think it's more the case that most artists are not given a choice, which was basically the original discussion here. The discussion started off as musicians are now having to compromise and shift from creating music as their end product to simply using music as part of the marketing component of a brand, image, lifestyle, etc. And no one said to be mad at people making money. But the people sitting in one of the most well-paid positions in history, i.e. software developers, shouldn't be making loose allusions to what they do is the same as people living in poverty and the lower class struggling for society to recognize as what they do as useful.

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