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From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

bloomberg.com

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Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#401

Post by downrightmike »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #335
felipemnoa wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And people were saying that we will never see a famine in Asia in the 21st century. That optimism was premature... I wonder whether people will decide to take their chances with the coronavirus if faced with famine? Something tells me that people will risk it with the coronavirus rather than die of starvation.

In a month or so, once the daily deaths subside, people will risk it with the coronavirus rather than having a recession turn into a depression. This will be the correct choice.

ennnnnnnnt. That's the buzzer, signaling that this is some bullshit. No one wants to die period. full stop. Greedy to the very end.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#402

Post by beerandt »

catalogia wrote: post #387
imtringued wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animal feed is often under less stringent regulations than food meant for human consumption.

When you're facing starvation, such modern niceties will go out the window.

That logic is good when the farm is next door and you can pay cash $ for a bushel of feed grade corn or whatever. But it starts to fall short when you're still relying on the normal supply chain to get food in a city center.

Desperate and hungry people will be resourceful, but it likely won't be as simple as a lower grade of corn in the produce section of the grocery store.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#403

Post by bluGill »

robk wrote: post #136
montalbano wrote: post #126

Another more UK-centric Guardian article that may be of interest: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-an...

Why aren't they just raising wages? There are many people who can work and need jobs simply a matter of finding the clearing price and passing it on to us consumers which I'm very happy to bear.

There are many people who can work. Will they though? It is hard labor. If you can get enough to live on without working why would you take that job? I wouldn't take farm labor of the type they need if I had any other options. Driving a tractor I could do, but there are plenty of those people already.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#404

Post by gdubs »

jagger27 wrote: post #327
mft_ wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this! Can you recommend some simple concise instructions on growing tomatoes? I’ve explored a little in the past, but always seemed to run into fairly impenetrable instructions. A basic list of what to buy (in non-gardeners’ terminology) and some simple instructions would be great.

I'd be happy to! Tomatoes are super forgiving and are a great place to start. The easiest thing is to pick up a seed packet at a garden supply store. I buy most of mine online or from Stokes. Drying out seeds is fairly easy, but seed packets are less work. For starting seedlings you only need a few simple supplies. Ideally you have very light, "airy", soil. This usually sold as "seed starter" mix. You can make do wit…

Do you have a blog? I love your writing style.

These are great tips. This year I also started some seedlings early — I used some left over egg cartons as containers, and put them on top of my clothes dryer which is next a window and often warm.

My sugar snap peas shot up the fastest so those are already in the ground. Thinking of putting the rest of my seedlings in the ground this weekend and starting some more sprouts in egg cartons.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#405

Post by [deleted] »

llampx wrote: post #26
partingshots wrote: post #4

Doesn’t the Netherlands export the majority of Europe’s fresh food? As long as the supply chain doesn’t break down, I don’t see how it would be possible for Spain and Germany to run out of food. Especially since they’re all in the EU, even if the Netherlands wanted to close off their borders, there’s no way they really could.

I'm not sure what you mean by countries in the EU not being able to close their borders, they can.

[deleted]

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#406

Post by infinite8s »

empath75 wrote: post #396
bluGill wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the UK, but I've talked to California farmers who (off the record) tell me they quit advertising locally for workers because at $25/hr they still couldn't get people to work (most wouldn't apply, the ones who did quit after less than a day). Immigrants (not always legal I'm sure but I know better than to ask that question) are happy with $13/hour.

So pay more than $25 an hour. There is surely a salary that people will accept to do the work. I don’t know why everyone assumes that manual labor only deserves near poverty wages.

No one will pay $5 for an avocado.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#407

Post by hiram112 »

empath75 wrote: post #396
bluGill wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the UK, but I've talked to California farmers who (off the record) tell me they quit advertising locally for workers because at $25/hr they still couldn't get people to work (most wouldn't apply, the ones who did quit after less than a day). Immigrants (not always legal I'm sure but I know better than to ask that question) are happy with $13/hour.

So pay more than $25 an hour. There is surely a salary that people will accept to do the work. I don’t know why everyone assumes that manual labor only deserves near poverty wages.

I agree - there should be no job that nobody will do, only jobs that people won't do at the price you want to pay them.

And what this really means, is that maybe certain products - like $7 bins of pecans from Walmart, or $1 heads of fresh lettuce - have been under a market that wasn't sustainable, and a lot of these food products that we take for granted should be luxury items again.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#408

Post by Tade0 »

jholman wrote: post #384
Tade0 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an eastern European I think the British should pick their own fruit and pay the appropriate price if they like it so much, otherwise the market is artificially inflated. Germany has the exact same problem with asparagus. We can't be everywhere with our low wage expectations.

I think that probably that would make you and your countryfolk worse off. To try to illustrate, I'll switch the analogy to my own country, which is Canada, where we fly in Mexican labour to pick crops. If we didn't fly in migrant labour, we'd have to pay Canadians, who are generally a spoiled, lazy, picky bunch (at least compared to the sort of Mexicans who fly here to work, who obviously are not lazy nor excessively…

I think there's one thing missing in your picture:

Those workers aren't necessarily unskilled. Those who come from my country(Poland) at least are often college graduates.

How do they end up there? Well, the pay is obviously better - especially for a seasonal worker. After all, the GDP per capita difference between the UK and Poland is close to 3x.

The unemployment rate here is(or was before the virus) considerably lower than the EU average, so had they not gone there those people would've found jobs and contributed to the local economy.

Instead we have this weird brain-drain in which the brains aren't utilized to their full potential.

Ironically I'm currently a "seasonal worker" myself, only I work as a software engineer, not fruit picker, or any low-skilled labourer.

Aside from that the coronavirus showed that this approach you present is unsustainable. Like I said before, currently there is so much demand for workers from eastern Europe (Poland, Ukraine, Belarus) that there's simply not enough people to fill all the positions.

Also we have our own fields with fruit to pick - all that is going to go to waste. That's definitely "less food produced" - just somewhere you don't see it.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#409

Post by Zenst »

GordonS wrote: post #81
Zenst wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, I grew tomatoes in my flat few years back, was so choice picking a ripe tomato on christmas day grown indoors on a window ledge and no additional lighting needed. Sure can't grow it all, but certainly makes a positive dent in my needs.

Yikes, you grew tomatoes indoors ? How did you stand the smell?

Was not an issue at all.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#410

Post by bluGill »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #193
lotsofpulp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then Walmart would fail because everyone would shop at target or Another store. In a low margin business, every percent counts.

Historically, Walmart thrived in relatively small town, rural areas. When I was homeless in downtown San Diego, I had to take a bus elsewhere to occasionally visit the Walmart. There aren't any in the downtown area. They don't typically do well in the big city. You presume people have those options. You presume they can readily and conveniently get to them in a way that makes financial and logistical sense. In my sma…

Historically Walmart drove out all the other shopping in small towns that was barly hanging on as the place locals went when they needed something fast. Until Walmart opened in my town we planned monthly trips to the city an hour away for most of what we needed. The local shops had some things, but the high prices and poor selection meant we couldn't afford to shop local often.

Note that Walmart of then is not the Walmart of today. They used to have quality products at a good price.

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