Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused • Hacker News Board

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#401

Post by remote_phone » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 3:45 PM UTC

throwaway100773 wrote: post #154

echelon wrote: post #144

This could go very bad for Sonos. Imagine a virus that looks for Sonos devices on a network and bricks them all via "recycle mode"! The API probably isn't even locked down. I think it's unauthenticated SOAP/UPnP. An even dumber attack: guests with your wifi credentials can download the Sonos app and break your gear. It's entirely unauthenticated.

Im in the market for sound equipment. I just crossed these guys off my list.

They will brick your older speakers or remove functionality. I have 7 Sonos speakers, spending $3-4k on them because quite frankly I love them and the technology was great. I bought a soundbar for my TV with sub and surround speakers and they sound fantastic, and being able to use them to play music was amazing.

But then they started removing functionality from their app, and the Play 1s don’t even work with the iPhone anymore unless you have a streaming service or you set up a music service. The ability to just play music and then play it on your speakers is gone. And they don’t give a fuck. They are completely unapologetic and they just forget about their older speakers like a bad habit and that’s why I will never buy another one again.

And their app is getting worse, they are forcing logging in to monitor your usage, etc. It’s infuriating. Their technology was amazing 5 years ago but now it’s annoying.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#402

Post by Lammy » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 3:50 PM UTC

shawnz wrote: post #383

hkh28 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears they can, but choose not to. This way they can ensure that less used units are available on the market, forcing people to buy a new unit instead.

In the thread it was explained how support agents would refuse to do it remotely for a customer's device, but what I'm saying is that Sonos probably retains the ability for themselves to refurbish and resell the units when they are physically returned to Sonos.

They encourage you to recycle it yourself rather than send it back to them. From their support page: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3573

“Once your Sonos product has been deactivated, you can safely recycle it by bringing it to your local e-waste recycling center. You can also send your deactivated Sonos product back to us and we’ll handle the recycling.”

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#403

Post by layoutIfNeeded » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

>From what our eBay guy can tell, the bricking isn't even in hardware; you can't recover it if you're good with JTAG, because it's blacklisted as "recycled" on their servers.

Yet another reason to never own anything "smart".

I wonder how difficult would it be to strip out the Sonos smart crap from these speakers and connect a Raspberry W to the preamp?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#404

Post by toomanybeersies » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #107

noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed. People's ears have not changed, and the ability to reproduce sound has been nearly perfected. If you're not too picky/audiophillic, like most people, the requirements are even lower.

People's taste has changed though. Your speakers from the 80's generally can't be driven as loud with current music, as modern music tends to be a lot more bass heavy (obviously a lot more pronounced with techno and other electronic music, but also with pop music).

The response curve from speakers has also reflected that, a lot of them are bass boosted in the amplifier or are designed with a bass boost in them.

I have some fairly nice speakers from the 70's (a couple of different sets, one homebuilt), and Pink Floyd and Jefferson Airplane sound a lot better from them than Katy Perry or Tiesto.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#405

Post by gwright » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #317

wayoutthere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they would have to continue supporting those devices, which isn’t part of the planned obsolescence business model. It would also dilute the luxury brand halo that Sonos has tried to cultivate. It’s more like Louis Vuitton getting into the secondhand market. They too would (and do) destroy merchandise rather than let it get sold at a discount and dilute the brand value.

You can already buy louis vuitton at the nordstrom rack. The model for highly disposable luxury technology is Apple. Apple is also the model for refurbished goods. These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can tuck away a refurbished part of the site just out of the eyes of the majority just like Apple does.

"highly disposable"? I think if you consider the average useable lifetime of an Apple product they aren't as expensive as they may seem.

Of course there are people who want a new model phone every year but that is their choice, certainly not something forced by the nature of the product.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#406

Post by gwright » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #327

reeddavid wrote: post #23

What a total waste. Apparel companies are starting to participate in the secondary market for their used gear, why can't Sonos do something similar? Examples: - Patagonia Worn Wear ( https://wornwear.patagonia.com ) - REI Used Gear ( https://www.rei.com/used/shop/gear ) - Arc'teryx Rock Solid ( https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com ) As it stands, Sonos is effectively buying their old speakers and then throwing them away. C…

Patagonia are famously environmental and not really run on a capitalist basis...

What definition of "capitalism" are you using?

Patagonia certainly seems to exist in a world of private ownership, private investment decisions, and voluntary exchanges in a free market.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#407

Post by peapicker » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

Cougher wrote: post #337

mark-r wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Guitar Center to be a good place to check out and buy monitor speakers and headphones.

I don't know if it still applies, but studio speakers used to be notorious for bad sound. I would also hope that you wouldn't be considering guitar amp-type speakers as well.

Depends on what you spend. Good studio monitors should have fairly flat response across the audio spectrum and most tend to be Near-field monitors which sound absolutely great when you are positioned in front of them as you would for mixing, but don’t sound quite as good when used as a general room speaker. Mind you they are often still better than many peoples setups just the same. The ones that are not Near field can work even better for a general audio situation but tend to cost even more.

Some studio monitors like the popular KRK series are not flat response and are a bit bass heavy.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#408

Post by bronson » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

ladon86 wrote: post #252

Godel_unicode wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sonos will pay for you to ship your recycled speaker back to them to be recycled. Not only do they pay for this shipping and recycle the speaker, but they give you a 30% credit. Hardly zero cost to Sonos, and considering the thriving market for refurbished speakers from Sonos it seems pretty clear the old speakers are being reused. Overall, sounds like they're doing exactly what they say they are.

They don’t accept the old speakers (let alone pay for shipping), they ask you to bring them to a non-affiliated recycling center. They are never reactivated.

They do pay for shipping: https://www.sonos.com/en-us/tradeup

That said, permanently disabling good devices still seems like vandalism.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#409

Post by o-__-o » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

wiml wrote: post #345

o-__-o wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s make an open source Sonos clone and call it Fauxnos. It can be powered by a raspberry pi integrated into a speaker running mpd. Who wants to join my git repo?

I've been running that system for a few years (with control via MALP or ncmpc mostly). Works pretty well.

do you have a keybase.io ID? I’m going to kick this off as my first 2020 project

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#410

Post by mark-r » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

Cougher wrote: post #330

mark-r wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bluetooth is the biggest joke foisted on audio. Even at its best there is mandated compression, which means the highest quality signal will be mashed into a lowest common denominator piece of garbage.

Not to mention all the basement "remixers" who use audacity or whatever to "improve" the sound before they stream it, or max the volume to the point of constant red-lining, nevermind downgrading it to mp3 instead of using a lossless format.

The damage you do to your music is on you. I'm talking about damage inflicted automatically that you may not even be aware of.