California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am • Hacker News Board

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#401

Post by boomboomsubban » Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #400

boomboomsubban wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What i have is a pretty clear indication that meeting early in school does not affect your abilities to perform well in fact when you compare SA which have the earliest meeting time they dominate of a top 30, 20 of those are SA. All this shows is that there are more things that impact performance than start time. Those SA schools could still be performing better with a later start time, you have no idea. >anything t…

Of course there are other factors, but what I was responding to what the claim that meeting early lead to poorer performance. THATS the context here. You are moving the goalpost whether you want to admit it or not. You made the mistake and you can't even live up to that. That says it all.

The mistake I admitted I made in my last post and gave context as to why I made the mistake? The mistake that doesn't even matter, as your evidence would still be defined as "anecdotal" either way? That says it all?

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#402

Post by tripzilch » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 12:26 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #399

tripzilch wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's much less anecdotal than (...) studies being done You what? Come on man. There aren't degrees of "anecdotalness". That doesn't even make sense. Neither does calling a study anecdotal. I'm starting to think you don't know what the word means. I'll give you one hint: it does not have as much to do with the meaning of the word "anecdote" as you seem to think, but with the way factual evidence is collected and bei…

Huh? I learned in school that sooner or later anecdotes become statistics. If you didn't learn that you are missing something. So here is the statistics for you. 2400 elementary schools in NY state, ALL 30 SA schools is in the top 3% and 2/3s of the top 1.5% is SA schools. The claim was that the time you meet in school makes you perform poorer. 17% of NY elementary schools meet after 8.30, most meet between 8-8.30, S…

It was anecdotal because your example started as a story about your kids. The statistics you quote here are pretty much meaningless, so it doesn't change a thing. Let me explain why.

If the SA schools perform consistently higher, and assuming for a school to be "SA" involves a bit more then starting at 7.45, then you need to compare the performance of SA schools that start at 7.45 with the performance of SA schools that start at 8.30. There aren't any? Then there is no way to tell. Not via statistics, at least.

Your comparison of statistics changes way too many variables to make any conclusion.

There's simply no way to tell if an SA school might not perform even better if they started later. Especially since the statistics you quote are not objective but "top X", which if they're already near the top, you couldn't measure improvement even if it was there.

Similarly, without quoting the proper statistics, there is also no way to tell if the schools starting at 8.30 might not perform worse if you changed nothing but starting them at 7.45. The numbers you quote simply do not say anything about this.

(also you're never going to prove anything about an effect in highschoolers by quoting irrelevant statistics about elementary schools)

Either way, your numbers don't prove what you are claiming, yet you still hold to this claim. If your claim is not anecdotal, then it is simply wrong.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#403

Post by sieabahlpark » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

blobbers wrote: post #168

sieabahlpark wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California doesn't want people to have families, that's not the progressive mindset unless you're making over 300-400k on a single income

California is a place where you can make 300-400k on a single income. Not many states where that's the norm.

It's certainly not the majority of people here.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#404

Post by jjeaff » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 11:46 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #147

freddie_mercury wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your single anecdote does not outweigh the many, many scientific studies that been conducted on this subject (or any other subject for that matter). I would have that would be obvious to a HN reader.

My single anecdote isnt single at all. We are talking about several schools using same method with kids in the top 3% on average. Show me the research and we can debate it, until then the primary problem in the us is that parent put their kids to bed too late.

How is it you think that is evidence somehow? You might as well conclude that having a unicorn as your school mascot is why kids do so well at that school. http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

There are so many confounding factors that could be causing students to do better in those schools.

Here is my take away from your 'data': Imagine how much better those students would be doing if they also weren't getting up earlier than is natural or recommended.