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Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

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Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#401

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

natch wrote: post #101

This is great news both for Perl and for Raku. I will probably bother to take a serious look at Raku now, sometime, if anything just for curiosity. Why not before? I have no good answer for that. But my main worry about it is that I suspect it has brought along with it the community's dysfunctional fascination with over-the-top cleverness and arcane constructs. I'll probably stick with Python and Perl 5 on an as-need…

How much of a difference is it going to make? I mean nowadays most people are going with python, for better or for worse.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#402

Post by aflag »

chmod775 wrote: post #399
aflag wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, how do you learn languages now?

I read a blog post with the basics, then Google everything else as I need it.

Interesting. A good book is very efficient at teaching you how to think in that particular language, rather than translating the ideas you have in another language into the new language. How do you learn that with your method? It sounds to me that it would require a long time programming in the new language to come to the same realisations by yourself.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#403

Post by mst »

kbenson wrote: post #268
j9461701 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it? It's what my company's entire code base is written in. So every hour of every work day for the past 6 months. >To me it looks really no uglier than any other mainstream language, and one could easily make the argument that any other mainstream language you care to name is uglier in some of its own ways. It's no one thing, but a bunch of little things tha…

> while ( ) { ($h{$_}++ == 1) && push (@outputarray, $_); }; That's a business culture thing. If you set the expectation, that it's okay to do that, people might do that. If you set the expectation that it's not okay, people shouldn't. The equivalent C and Python are likely just as ugly (given that the equivalent python might be using a far too complex range statement or put it on a single line using : and ;, which i…

File::Slurp is broken AF though, and obsoleted by File::Slurper since the original can't be fixed without breaking accidentally working code in the wild.

Still mostly fine so long as you know you're only dealing with 7-bit ASCII, IIRC, but Caveat Emptor.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#404

Post by tyingq »

Grinnz wrote: post #338
hnick wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not necessarily a fan of the OO in those either :) I try to use OO sparingly when possible, and in Perl that generally just means I've been using a hash and decide it'd be more convenient that it keep some functions to itself rather than pass it around to other functions. I will say in Perl's defense, the bare implementation really made me appreciate what OO actually is under the hood. I felt like I understood it…

It does make it very clear that it is just a data structure (state) associated with a class (behavior).

It's also pretty neat that you can bless any type as an object. People use the hash most often for obvious reasons, but you can use a scalar/string, array, etc, if you wish.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#405

Post by cutler »

dragonwriter wrote: post #355
cutler wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if GraalVM fixes startup times aren't JVM languages just too long-winded for scripting? Perl, Python and Ruby dominate the scripting world for a reason - standard libraries for file, dir and pathname manipulation written in a concise language. Scripting is a style of coding, not just a means to an end. It is here that dynamic languages excel. Clojure is the leanest of the JVMs but doesn't it still rely on Java f…

> Even if GraalVM fixes startup times aren't JVM languages just too long-winded for scripting? Perl, Python and Ruby dominate the scripting world for a reason Ruby is a JVM language, in that JRuby is a very complete competitive, current, and widely-used-in-production Ruby implementation.

By JVM languages I really meant those designed originally for the JVM, ie. Java, Clojure, Scala, Kotlin & Groovy.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#406

Post by goodcanadian »

anonytrary wrote: post #358
kbd wrote: post #136

Naming matters. Nim changing from "Nimrod" matters. Cockroachdb's name is offputting. Perl 6's name has caused endless confusion and by itself sabotaged both Perl 5 and Perl 6. Perl 6 has interesting ideas but I don't even want to touch it because its naming issue is so toxic. I'm glad they're going to rename it.

Is there a TLDR on what's wrong with the name "Perl 6" for those of us who have zero context?

The sibling comments aren't wrong. However, Perl 6 was originally intended to be the next version of Perl. For a long time it was vapourware, however, and development restarted on Perl 5.

When Perl 6 finally arrived, it was too much of a step change from Perl 5 to convince many people (myself included). Meanwhile, Perl 5 had continued to develop and was, in no way, in need of a replacement.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#408

Post by zumu »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #33

From what I could tell, Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). Incidentally, it also happens to sound similar to "roku" (="six").

So as a Japanese speaker, I don't think I ever would have made the 'raku' == 'rakuda' camel connection.

Also, while 'raku' is the reading for 楽, which connotes easy, simple and other good things, it is also the reading for a bunch of other characters--namely, 落, which means or carries the connotation of falling, declining or otherwise missing the mark.

When I see the 'raku' transliteration in the context of Perl, I think of 落. Not sure if that says something about my subconscious perception of Perl or not, but I can't help but think 'Raku' is a bad choice for the name of a language mired in indecision and falling from public favor.

On another note, I find the inclination of tech projects towards poorly translated Japanese words amusing. It nicely compliments the phenomena you see in the use of random English words for the naming of Japanese cars, condo buildings, and other 'prestigious' products. So if you find that ridiculous, you should find these 'Japanese' technology names ridiculous as well.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#409

Post by kbenson »

mst wrote: post #403
kbenson wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while ( ) { ($h{$_}++ == 1) && push (@outputarray, $_); }; That's a business culture thing. If you set the expectation, that it's okay to do that, people might do that. If you set the expectation that it's not okay, people shouldn't. The equivalent C and Python are likely just as ugly (given that the equivalent python might be using a far too complex range statement or put it on a single line using : and ;, which i…

File::Slurp is broken AF though, and obsoleted by File::Slurper since the original can't be fixed without breaking accidentally working code in the wild. Still mostly fine so long as you know you're only dealing with 7-bit ASCII, IIRC, but Caveat Emptor.

Ah, well I actually use Path::Tony's slurp functionality mostly, depending on if it's already available in the project (which it is in any I set up).

It's easier to just say File::Slurp in mixed company so people immediately know what it is if they look it up, rather than them be confronted with a grab-bag of functions.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#410

Post by pvaldes »

coldtea wrote: post #400
pvaldes wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything counts. And don't make me talk about camelia.

> Everything counts Not everything counts equally. If something affects the adoption by 1M users, and another is only a concern for 100 weirdos, the second is not exactly a major issue to focus on...

> If something affects the adoption by 1M users, and another is only a concern for 100 weirdos, the second is not exactly a major issue to focus on...

noun: weirdo;

1) a person whose dress or behaviour seems strange or eccentric.

Yep, weirdos will never ever have any influence on Perl development or Perl community.

https://www.ecured.cu/Larry_Wall#/media/File:Imagen_Larry_Wa...

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