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In Defense of Richard Stallman

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Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#401

Post by loktarogar »

pvaldes wrote: post #275
sergiosgc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. Every episode I read about fell into the category of "socially awkward adult male". If we can't, as a group, tolerate awkwardness, we are very much down the rabbit hole of mandatory social conformity. By all means, point me to a real abuse scenario by Stallman. I like being prove…

> He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace This sword cuts both ways. MIT is not a kindergarten, they are adult people moving in an adult work context. It has been said here, that some women are so terrified of Stallman that will carry plants around with they. If true this would speak volumes but not about RMS; about those women! I assume that there are a lot of very smart but socially awkward people (m…

The common factor in all interactions with RMS is RMS. You can shrug off one or two incidents but not as many as there has been.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#402

Post by TeMPOraL »

smhost wrote: post #298
TeMPOraL wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently to zero, and if we're to believe the article, he's been made to starve under the bridge too (if I'm to believe the countless HN threads about homelessness in the US, this is how being homeless looks like).

Unless something has changed recently, stallman is still the head of the GNU project ( https://www.fudzilla.com/news/49493-richard-stallman-says-i-... ). and according to stallman's personal site, he's found interim housing ( https://stallman.org/ ).

That's both good news. Thanks for the update.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#403

Post by dzamie »

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #278
virgilp wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, no, he didn't - he lead with it. > Diversity -- but no diversity of opinion... Is there any sort of evidence of action? Him having had sex with children? If anything, it's you who left out the part where Stallman already said, before this incindent, that he was wrong. I.e. he said it because he actually changed his mind and believes he was wrong, not in order to "save face" or clear his image or avoid scand…

If someone tells me they think that it's sometimes fine to have sex with children, I don't need any evidence of action to want to distance myself from that person. > If anything, it's you who left out the part where Stallman already said, before this incindent, that he was wrong. I.e. he said it because he actually changed his mind and believes he was wrong, not in order to "save face" or clear his image or avoid sca…

>they think that it's sometimes fine to have sex with children

From what I can tell from the snippets posted here, he isn't saying it's fine, he's saying he's seen insufficient evidence to form an opinion - and in such a state, he resists those who would force one on him with faulty reasoning. Or, to put it another way, he views morality with three responses [yes, no, I don't know], which causes friction with people who view it with two:

"Is involuntary pedophilia bad?" [yes] "Is all pedophilia bad?" [idk - insufficient evidence on voluntary or its inherent lack of existence] "Do you think that all pedophilia is bad?" [no - position held is idk, not yes] "Therefore, you think all pedophilia is good." [no - position held is idk, not yes]

A similar comparison might be being asked if you enjoyed an unreleased book, then using "no[, I haven't read it and formed an opinion]" to justify "you think the book is bad."

ETA: also, if he hasn't said more on the subject in recent years, it's silly to assume that he necessarily still hold these views or lack thereof.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#404

Post by mieseratte »

missosoup wrote: post #53
Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> They focused on his tone deaf communication style and awkward demeanor. They spoke of behavior from decades ago and pointed out the fact that he had a mattress in his office. It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. > He held his positions at MIT, GNU, and the FSF for over thirty years, and in that time nobody accused h…

"actively made women feel unwelcome" therefore he should be internet lynch mobbed with the same fervor that's reserved for high profile criminals? Do I get my own internet lynch mob next time someone makes me feel unwelcome or acts unprofessionally?

"Someone could have been theoretically, emotionally harmed, therefore I must cause real-world harm!"

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#405

Post by Kbelicius »

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #319
meerita wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not stating pedophilia is good. If you assume he is doing that, then you don't understand the claims he does. (i dissagree with what he posted).

No, but he did say that having sex with children is sometimes fine. Which is what I said.

> No, but he did say that having sex with children is sometimes fine

Can you quote/link those instances since the two statements that you quoted don't say that at all.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#406

Post by new2628 »

ianleeclark wrote: post #336
pvaldes wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace This sword cuts both ways. MIT is not a kindergarten, they are adult people moving in an adult work context. It has been said here, that some women are so terrified of Stallman that will carry plants around with they. If true this would speak volumes but not about RMS; about those women! I assume that there are a lot of very smart but socially awkward people (m…

> A fully growth women, so terrified of any contact with men to barricade herself behind a geranium all day, should raise a red flag. Cool victim blaming. > Any adult women should be able to stop and deal elegantly with an undesired proposition. They're in a professional environment, they shouldn't have to deal with this.

> They're in a professional environment, they shouldn't have to deal with this.

Tell that to all the millions of people who are happily married to people they met in professional environments.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#407

Post by blackhaz »

roenxi wrote: post #380
claudeganon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if this is just more grandstanding of the “SJWs run amok” variety, but in case you’re unaware, his recent comments were just the tip of the iceberg: https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-appendi... Someone else downthread also linked about how a woman he worked with on a Linux project had to be warned of his arrival ahead of time so she could leave because of his aggressive advances toward…

Something like 50% of that article isn't Stallman related, and some of the choice quotes are a bit unbelievable. Eg: > I recall being told early in my freshman year “If RMS hits on you, just say ‘I’m a vi user’ even if it’s not true.” That sounds like a joke. I mean, it is a joke. That isn't a serious comment/strategy on harassment. No creep has ever been forestalled by someone claiming to be a vi user. 1 stupid opin…

This is hilarious. This Selam G. is full of bullshit.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#408

Post by rndgermandude »

viraptor wrote: post #387
rndgermandude wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was witch-hunted on the internet by a serial witch-hunter, some "journalists" who lack basic reading comprehension and the lynch mob that ensured. It's naive to believe he resigned voluntarily. He was pressured into it, probably believed the witch-hunters, lynchmobgoers and finger pointers to a certain degree that he indeed is evil, resigned to protect what he created and therefore was nice enough to not shit all…

He built a global movement challenging people publically and he's happy to semi-publically state his opinions about sexual assault at the worst possible time, but he will stay silent about pressure to step down to be nice? I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that.

>He built a global movement challenging people publically

Exactly, is it hard to imagine he doesn't want to take a blow torch to his own creation just as a last "fuck you" farewell?

>happy to semi-publically state his opinions about sexual assault

He said sexual assault is bad. How dare he?!

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#409

Post by icebraining »

lettergram wrote: post #210
throw0101a wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every episode I read about fell into the category of "socially awkward adult male". If we can't, as a group, tolerate awkwardness, we are very much down the rabbit hole of mandatory social conformity. Perhaps you need to read about more episodes: > I worked 10 years ago at VA Linux which had Richard Stallman on its board of directors. You might have heard that Stallman applied his open source ideas to his publicly…

> I don’t know the details, but she was given advanced warning anytime Stallman was headed over so that she could leave. He was a creep and women at the company knew to stay away. If we don’t have a specific account and details are unknown, then I don’t think this is a fair characterization. Ive had others think Stallman is creepy too. They actively avoided him, but he never did anything to them. Sexual advances in a…

> it sounds like it wasn’t far enough outside the acceptable conduct to warrant anything.

That's not how things work. Workplace "justice" is quite dependent on things like internal politics and personal affiliations. You can't rely tell how bad something was by the disciplinary response.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#410

Post by mcv »

rimliu wrote: post #375
mcv wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have anything to do with diversity of opinion or lack thereof. If this article is correct, the issue is simply a blatant misrepresentation of what Stallman said. I admit I haven't been following this news very well so far, so I'm doubtless missing some important facts. I'd heard Stallman was stepping down because of something he said about Minsky, but I have no idea what that was. If this is it, and this a…

And how do you feel about weirdos who treaten to kill themselves if a girl won't go out with them?

I think people who threaten to kill themselves for any reason need psychiatric help. That's simply not as healthy state of mind.
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