United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#401

Post by bb88 » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 4:24 AM UTC

garmaine wrote: post #363

bb88 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, the courts made the final decision on what's legal and what's not. I haven't seen the 9-0 Supreme Court decision that says that warrantless wiretapping is illegal. Maybe you can point it out to me? The point isn't that I disagree with you on what should be legal or illegal, I very much agree with you. The point is, unless something enters a court of law for ajudication, it's very much in the land of t…

It was tested in court and found to be illegal: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-nsa/nsas-pho...

So that case didn't go to the supreme court, as congress made that action specifically illegal.

But in other surveillance cases, the supreme court has dismissed the cases.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#402

Post by bb88 » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 4:39 AM UTC

mattkrause wrote: post #160

bb88 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an originalist (and I'm not saying that I am), data in transmit is not necessarily protected by that amendment If your data has left your house, is it really your data, or is it Google's say?

Is that really true? In 1789, "papers", being made of actual paper, were in transit for much longer in 1789 and there are absolutely draconian laws against destruction and obstruction of the mail. For example, 18 USC § 1702, which prohibits "with design to obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another, or opens, secretes, embezzles, or destroys the same" also doesn't have a carve-out…

Mail protection need not fall under 4th amendment protections if it's protected by laws passed by congress.

Another question would be: would mail be protected without that law and just by the 4th amendment itself?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#403

Post by whataburg » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 4:52 AM UTC

sunstone wrote: post #377

This is such a pathetic move it just has me belly laughing. NDA violation. No kidding? :D This is up there with Al Capone being taken down for tax evasion instead of racketeering. Snowden just so totally out manoeuvred the CIA they'll be butt hurt for decades.

Snowden is a fugitive who betrayed his country and has open criminal felony indictments against him, hides in Russia, and refuses to return home to America to face justice.

Capone was a mafia boss who was immune to direct criminal prosecution, hence the tax evasion charges.

It's unlikely the CIA is "butt hurt" about Snowden.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#404

Post by gigama » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

The DOJ pushing their case against Snowden's potential book profits nicely reminds everyone about the US government's illegal surveillance programs and simultaneously helps promote the book.

If I were Macmillan I'd consider not having any profits from it by simply donating all the proceeds from Snowden's book to the Freedom of the Press Foundation, a non-profit organization.

Kinda like when they demanded the cryptokeys to Lavabit but found instead it had gone out of business.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#405

Post by StanislavPetrov » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 5:04 AM UTC

GVIrish wrote: post #296

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is that the NSA not only routinely ignores issues raised by whistleblowers, but actively retaliates against them for trying to blow the whistle on illicit activities. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon...

Yes, that was what I was referring to when I said that one probably shouldn't have relied on those protections. However, it doesn't change the fact that he stole a tremendous amount of classified material that had nothing to do with what he felt civil liberties issues. Also doesn't change the fact that the Russian government outright admitted that Snowden shared Intel with them (according to the house Intel committee…

Snowden sacrificed his extremely lucrative career, his access and his ability to live in his own country to expose the illegal and unconstitutional conduct being carried out by the NSA. He put himself in extreme legal jeopardy to expose this illicit government activity and the lies of government officials like James Clapper, who perjured himself before the Senate when asked directly about these activities.

In direct contrast to Snowden and his unselfish, principled actions are people like you, who spread blatant falsehoods, such as your suggestion that Snowden gave the Russian government intel.

The Constitution is the highest law of the land. Those in government and in other official positions who have violated our Constitution are the real enemies of our country, not the people who expose their crimes. Sanctimonious babble about, "national security" does not excuse them, lessen or mitigate their crimes in any way. Hopefully the release of Snowden's book will rekindle interest in the unconstitutional, illegal surveillance that continues to be carried out in the name of, "national security" so those lawbreakers and criminals in the "intelligence community" can be put behind bars where they belong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwiUVUJmGjs

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#406

Post by dorgo » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

jknoepfler wrote: post #365

tempsolution wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let's best put it into the hand of the agency/government that tried to hide the information from the public in the first place... "Please defendent, have look at the evidence we gathered about your murder case. It's best if you decide which of the evidence we should use in court against you." lmao (on a sad note, this is how day to day business at goverments looks like and precisely WHY we need whistleblowers)

An obvious example of properly concealed information, however, would be the current address of an abusee testifying against an abuser. More pertinently to the Snowden case, information that might disclose the identity of people who risk their life to collaborate with the USA. There is legitimate cause to conceal information known to the government from the public. That said, I believe Snowden acted correctly. The fed…

> requires a willingness to go down with the ship

IMO, it would have lessened the impact if he went down with the ship. Otherwise I agree.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#407

Post by dredmorbius » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 5:22 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #32

HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

Rightly or wrongly, that is not a part of the SF86 form when one applies for a clearance. The SF86 form offers no leeway for moral objections. So in such a scenario, it would be better to not submit the SF86 form in the first place. The only people I'm aware of that can publish classified information without punishment are journalists.

The form itself may not, but it doesn't stand alone. There is the constitution, possibly legislation, legal precedent and gloss, and ultimately, the rulings of a jury, judges, and courts of appeal.

Which is why we have a rule of law and a justice system, and not simply contracts.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#408

Post by norcalli » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 6:08 AM UTC

Fjolsvith wrote: post #382

Inityx wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's squeaky clean, why is he scared shitless of people seeing his finance records

You're attributing that he's scared, when he is simply exercising his right to conduct his personal business privately.

This would be a perfectly reasonable argument for almost anyone in the world, but most certainly not for Donald Trump due to his position and his track record of statements on public record on Twitter, of all places.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#409

Post by AndrewBissell » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 6:28 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #395

AndrewBissell wrote: post #4

Well, guess I'll wait to see how this turns out before buying the book, I wouldn't want to hand one more penny than necessary to these .gov ghouls. If the government prevails in the lawsuit hopefully Snowden will offer an e-book for purchase with cryptocurrency.

The information hurts more than the money helps.

For sure, but as the meme says, why not both?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#410

Post by mgamache » Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 7:01 AM UTC

sansnomme wrote: post #392

api wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am more concerned about what Facebook, Google, and a bunch of adtech firms are doing. The private sector surveillance machine is probably more competent and high tech than three letter government agencies (it pays better and gets first pick of the talent pool), is subject to zero oversight, is almost completely lawless, and gathers quite a bit more information. The NSA at least has to answer to someone and is subje…

The FAANG tech unicorns at the current height of their power still pales in comparison to the East India Companies (British/Dutch/whatever the country doesn't really matter). Traverse the dependency tree of power and I don't think you will like what you would find near the root. At the end of the day, tech unicorns flourish within the legal sandbox of civilization. Without any command over legitimate violence, they h…

They are increasingly functioning as part of the government. Sort of a back-door for information and control. Getting any info on you from most companies is an administrative procedure. This turns them into a data collection arm of the US (and other) governments. Also, when consider the lobbying tech companies are doing it gets really incestuous.