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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#401

Post by jimbokun »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #344
jimbokun wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every political position is considered "hate speech" by people on one side of an issue or the other. The term has been over used so much it's losing much of its meaning. > I've always found it difficult to dissociate views vs actions when it comes to espoousing a hateful view. Views: giving a speech arguing abortion should be illegal Actions: blowing up an abortion clinic I find it very troubling so many…

So, if my view is that trans women should be called men, and I call a trans woman at my work a man, is this speech or an action? This is where I'm having difficulty distinguishing speech and action.

In the US? Would be protected free speech, and the government cannot make any laws about it.

For your company, though, they could fire you for violating their internal policies.

To categorize the speech, I would say it's just being an asshole. Even if you believe biological sex is assigned at birth and is immutable, going out of your way to not address someone the way they wish to be addressed is just being intentionally rude.

But even then, it's still speech.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#403

Post by lreeves »

duxup wrote: post #289
lreeves wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your perspective but I'm honestly very surprised given your example. I'm in Canada and the things Trump does and says are still present in conversations nearly every day.

>I'm in Canada and the things Trump does and says are still present in conversations nearly every day. I'm not sure what you mean but generally in my life... I actually don't have a lot of "political" conversations every day. More often than not, none at all.

As in simply something like going to the dentist or getting a haircut, politics comes up because at least in my lifetime and most peoples there's never been a President (and certainly not Prime Minister in Canada) doing the things that Trump is doing. Peoples lives, families and affairs have been affected for many who travel to the United States as an example and the discussions of what he's saying and doing permeate work and non-work environments.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#404

Post by LordFast »

d1zzy wrote: post #347
stcredzero wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people. It sounds like the work culture at Google has rediscovered the emergent factors which gave rise to the traditional cultural strictures against talking about money, politics, and religion. Good science is repeatable. Given that Google is arguab…

I agree, rules that govern large organizations didn't grow out of "mean bosses doing mean stupid things" but out of need for such a large organization to work well together. But, while that is true, it doesn't necessarily mean people will like the new Google, everyone's got their own personal taste in how the work culture should be and regardless of having very rational reasons why the culture is changing in some way…

Similarly, as the size and footprint of a company grows, the parameters controlling/sustaining the growth/maintenance of said company also change as well, thus changing the required talent profile accordingly.

EDIT: for the sake of the completion of thought, I want to add that the opposite is also true: a young company in a fast growing innovative industry can afford to hire a different kind of talent without harming its growth, and as the industry matures, they simply can't afford to keep doing that.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#405

Post by nostrademons »

psychrometer wrote: post #398
nostrademons wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been at Google in 5 years but I worked with a lot of Chinese coworkers from all three of mainland China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong when I was there (as well as ABCs of those descents). Honestly, I never saw a Chinese employee get into a political argument. Mostly they were just happy to be in the U.S. and draw a Google-level salary. ABCs (including myself) would, but usually about American politics, not Chinese…

Public actions like the ones in the story linked below make me think different. https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/australasia/article/3020639/c...

The action in question involved 3 mainland students and one Hong Kong student.

How many people live in mainland China? 1.3B. How many people live in Hong Kong? 7.4M. How many overseas Chinese are there? 50M. How many overseas Hongkongers? About 1.5M.

You can bet that if there is any one such incident happening in the globe, the press will seize on it, because it fits the current media narrative and gets clicks. By the numbers, though, you're looking at 1 in a million.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#406

Post by t0astbread »

manfredo wrote: post #382
t0astbread wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant "silencing" in general. Of course you're free to talk about what you want in your free time. In the context of work "silencing" could mean preventing workers from raising (valuable) concerns about the ethics of their work.

> In the context of work "silencing" could mean preventing workers from raising (valuable) concerns about the ethics of their work. And again, the only people I've seen making this argument have ethics and hold values that are in line with the company's values. I've never seen a liberal at a conservative company call for more political discussion, or vice versa. It's always been conservatives in conservative companie…

Interesting POV but you could apply it in the opposite way as well: As management, I could issue a "political ban", then start changing corporate policy and my employees couldn't say anything against it. Without a ban, they could at least spark internal debate.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#407

Post by cameronbrown »

TheGRS wrote: post #256
cameronbrown wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're being sarcastic/exaggerating, but even so. This is just a perfect example of how polarised politics is today. Society just needs to calm down and evaluate itself instead of bickering over nonsense.

Yes, every meaningful change in society has come to light because everyone calmed down enough.

How is meaningful change in society related to shipping Google Drive features?

Time and a place.

Politics has no nuance or filter anymore. It's all the time on full blast, forever. I hate it.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#408

Post by bradlys »

dgudkov wrote: post #377
taurath wrote: post #17

Why shouldn’t employees of the company with the goal of organizing all the worlds information debate politics? Everything is political. Especially information.

Because in theory, a debate is a thoughtful discussion where opponents are respectful to opinions of each other and have the common goal of finding the truth. In reality, political debating at workplace quickly becomes just ugly. And for companies like Google it's also costly, because media adore leaked scandals in big corporations.

> In reality, political debating at workplace quickly becomes just ugly.

I don't think it really has to. I debate politics with people at work enough. I won't get into specifics too much but it's not uncommon to meet someone who has a controversial opinion. You talk with someone, find out why they believe what they believe, and then question a few things (mostly asking why they believe they believe - what lead them to their beliefs). It doesn't have to get heated - it can be a boring lecture to one another about why you believe what you believe. It only gets ugly when you do things that won't lead to change like: "No - you're dumb! You should think what I think!" Which I don't think people who are emotionally and socially competent would do that often...

That said - I don't think of people at Google (or other big companies) as being particularly emotionally or socially competent because they don't hire and train for that.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#409

Post by dragontamer »

manfredo wrote: post #311
dragontamer wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. And that is the conundrum, is it not? We absolutely cannot let evil stand when we identify evil. Otherwise, it marches in and kills many. On the other hand, if we misidentify evil, then innocent people die. I'm not saying I have a solution. But the idea that "tolerance will save us all" is hopelessly naive. The sad fact is, a large number of people are systematically intolerant.

> We absolutely cannot let evil stand when we identify evil. Otherwise, it marches in and kills many. No, you let evil speech stand. And you call it out as evil, and make clear reasoned arguments why it is evil. That is the solution. Only when that evil speech turns into action does the society step in. Resorting to censorship only demonstrates weakness and an inability or unwillingness to argue against evil. This le…

> No, you let evil speech stand. And you call it out as evil, and make clear reasoned arguments why it is evil. That is the solution.

That doesn't work.

If you really think you can "convince" people to tolerate others, feel free to go to Stormfront and convince the white-nationalists to stop being racist.

Go and try it. Its not like these hateful locations are unknown, its a free and open internet. Go an talk with them for a week. You might learn how easy it is to rationalize bigotry and racism.

At some point, you gotta just shut it down, like what the world did to 8chan. And these situations aren't hypothetical at all. You literally can go test your theory at Stormfront.

> Only when that evil speech turns into action does the society step in.

We're too late for that. Christchurch shooter, and then El Paso shooter. We've got a strain of intolerant speech that are inspiring lone-wolves to go into literal suicide missions to shoot people they don't like right now.

Gun control debate is locked. Its been like 2 weeks and everyone's already forgotten about the El Paso shooter. Nothing will come about with that.

But at least we shut down 8chan, one of the hangout spots for this hateful branch of people. We should probably shutdown other hangout spots too, like Stormfront.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#410

Post by BigBlueBanjo »

kortilla wrote: post #356
damnyou wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with statements like this is that not choosing sides is exactly as political as choosing sides. There is no such thing as ignoring politics — it's an essential part of the human experience, so any organization must grapple with it.

No it’s not. Where did this stupid notion come from that everything neatly fits into two sides

People who think everything is political are usually authoritarians. They believe in order for progress to be made, you have to force or coerce people into doing the right thing.
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