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Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

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Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, this convergence of equivocation on First Amendment protections provides the perfect opportunity for a simple yet effect filter. 1. Start with the set of all potentially serious journalists. 2. Filter out the ones who put forth arguments which downplay the dangers to the press of prosecuting Assange. 3. Filter out the ones who don't explicitly argue against prosecuting Assange on 1st Amendment groun…

Most of the cries about 1st Amendment ignore the fact that the grand jury proceeded with the indictment because they have Jabber records of WikiLeaks discussing cracking the password of a Department of Defense database. The next time I get caught trying to hack the government I'm going to try the "but it was for journalism" defense. In fact, why can't I hack companies and claim I was just trying to get information to…

This isn't "most of the cries", it's a specific article, and not just by some rando.

> The Justice Department has been enamored of this conspiracy approach since the time of the Pentagon Papers. In that case, Richard Nixon’s DOJ attempted to enjoin the New York Times and, later, the Washington Post from publishing a forty-seven-volume Defense Department study of the history of US relations with Vietnam from 1945 to 1967, which had been classified top secret. I led the team of lawyers who defended the Times in that case.

[..]

> Should Trump’s Justice Department succeed in prosecuting Assange, the only safe course of action for a reporter would be to receive information from a leaker passively. As soon as a reporter actively sought the information or cooperated with the source, the reporter would be subject to prosecution. National security reporting, however, is not done by receiving information over the transom. It is naïve to think that reporters can sit around waiting for leaks to fall into their laps. In a recent interview, the longtime investigative reporter Seymour Hersh told me that he obtains classified information through a process of “seduction” in which he spends time trying to induce the source into giving up the information. If he isn’t allowed to do that, he says, “It’s the end of national security reporting.”

> It’s clear that the Justice Department believes such “seduction” creates a conspiracy between the leaker and the reporter. In its prosecution of the State Department employee Stephen Jin-Woo Kim for leaking classified information about North Korea to a Fox News reporter, James Rosen, the DOJ stated, in a sealed affidavit, that it considered Rosen a “co-­conspirator.” The DOJ filed the affidavit with the D.C. District Court in 2010 to gain access to Rosen’s email, which showed him persuading Kim, asking for the leak time and time again until Kim finally relented. The affidavit was unsealed three years later, to the shock of Rosen and many other journalists. When Fox News angrily protested that Rosen’s First Amendment rights prevented him from being a co-­conspirator, the Obama Justice Department assured Fox that it would not prosecute him. If this type of conspiracy theory were to be applied in a criminal trial, a court would end up examining every effort by a reporter to obtain information. It would criminalize the reporting process. Reporters and their publishers would argue that the First Amendment protected news-gathering efforts such as Rosen’s, but the result would be in doubt in every case.

> If reporters can be indicted for talking to their sources, it will mean that the government has created the equivalent of a UK Official Secrets Act—through judicial fiat, without any legislative action.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the cries about 1st Amendment ignore the fact that the grand jury proceeded with the indictment because they have Jabber records of WikiLeaks discussing cracking the password of a Department of Defense database. The next time I get caught trying to hack the government I'm going to try the "but it was for journalism" defense. In fact, why can't I hack companies and claim I was just trying to get information to…

This isn't "most of the cries", it's a specific article, and not just by some rando. > The Justice Department has been enamored of this conspiracy approach since the time of the Pentagon Papers. In that case, Richard Nixon’s DOJ attempted to enjoin the New York Times and, later, the Washington Post from publishing a forty-seven-volume Defense Department study of the history of US relations with Vietnam from 1945 to 1…

This is a wild take though, because seeking information (details, clarification) from something a source gives you is not the same as asking the source for the password hash of a DoD server so you can crack it and gain unauthorized access to classified military documents.

If they don't pursue this crime I can literally start hacking people/companies/governments and publishing my findings because it's just "journalism".

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the cries about 1st Amendment ignore the fact that the grand jury proceeded with the indictment because they have Jabber records of WikiLeaks discussing cracking the password of a Department of Defense database. The next time I get caught trying to hack the government I'm going to try the "but it was for journalism" defense. In fact, why can't I hack companies and claim I was just trying to get information to…

Instructions to hack (which is what Assange did) should be protected by the first amendment. Nevertheless, hacking-related laws are a disgrace to our freedom.

It wasn't instructions. Manning gave the hash to them so they could crack it and gain access. In that case WikiLeaks were the ones cracking a password to access classified DoD documents.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#404
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, think of it this way: imagine that you were trying to help someone else hack the Australian Department of Defense. Should you face an investigation and trial for it or are you immune because you're not Australian? The US might extradite you if Australia could make that case. Especially if it could be proven that you would receive a fair trial and no cruel or unusual punishment. That's what's happening here. The…

It's interesting that you present Butina's case as having been a fair trial. Her "crime" was basically naive, opportunistic networking with influential people (all of which was done publicly and even documented publicly on social media, so hardly consistent with a conspiracy). Hordes of people do that on a daily basis without registering as a foreign agent. But she's Russian, and in the age of Trump/Russia hysteria,…

> Her "crime" was basically naive, opportunistic networking with influential people

Yeah, under the direction of Russian officials, as an unregistered agent on their behalf.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you proposing a double-standard? Can cops be justified breaking into your house without a warrant, so long as they find evidence of a crime?

I mean, this is how case law is established. We currently have the notion of exigent circumstances, that if the police have a lawful reason to enter your house without a warrant (such as believing that someone is in imminent danger) and they find in plain sight in the course of that entry evidence of a crime, it's fair game. A case like this is how we determine if journalists are allowed to hack into government datab…

> A case like this is how we determine if journalists are allowed to hack into government databases.

Which, considering the broad definition of "journalist" here, might mean that we're free to hack anything as long as we publish it.

Would I have the right to hack your web service and leak that data because "journalism"?

And if I get caught hacking something could I simply say that my intent was to publish it?

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What value to the public came of his targeted weaponizing of information? Nothing illegal or particularly surprising was revealed in the 2016 emails; the only illegal act involved here was (presumably) Russian hackers committing several federal felonies in order to get access to those emails. Yes, they were embarrassing, but any political organization, or indeed any organization at all, will have mundane communicatio…

So your entire point hinges on you "reckon" the RNC emails would have been juicer?

Nothing hinges on that aside.

But, yeah, if you don't think the RNC was saying nasty things about Trump during the primary process, you are very... Out of the loop.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goes some way toward explaining the RussiaRussiaRussia hysteria...

Also Pizzagate. Spread by Mr. Assange himself for political purposes. https://our.wikileaks.org/Pizzagate Leading to https://rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/john-pod...

Yes I agree that random crazy people should be held to the same standard as the war media.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it is misleading?

It strongly implies that it was a covert action by the US or its allies to cut him off from the world. When it was actually just his hosts getting tired of his shit.

Wikileaks tweeted it was a "state actor" [0], which is not just technically true, it's actually true because Equador is a state actor and there's no reference or implication at all to the US in that Tweet.

[0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/787889195507417088

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#409
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selective leaking and delaying/timing leaks for maximum impact is election meddling. > if he was spreading false information https://our.wikileaks.org/Pizzagate Leading to https://rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/john-pod... Also implying that Seth Rich was the real leaker and that the DNC had him killed for it. http://www.fox5dc.com/news/wikileaks-founder-addresses-death...

I know that it intends to meddle with the election. Like I said, that isn't inherently a bad thing. I also fully intend on "election meddling" by sharing my opinions on the internet. As should you. It's on you to prove why this is bad for the american people. Here are quotes from the two conspiracy theories you were talking about. Did you even read the articles you linked? he specifically warned in both instances tha…

> I know that it intends to meddle with the election. Like I said, that isn't inherently a bad thing.

Whether it is bad depends on intent IMHO.

If it is simply to give information for a better informed public that's one thing. If it's to selectively target a particular candidate to fuck them over, it is another.

Would the "journalist" in question release similar, potentially damaging information on other candidates?

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you don't believe in extradition at all, but there is precedence for this and most western countries are on board. It's not just the US, UK, and Australia. And the conspiracy wasn't just cracking the password, it was explicit intent to crack it for unauthorized access to classified military intelligence.

In limited cases I support it but I believe some type of consent to be governed is required, I consider physically visiting a sovern nation as implicit concent to be governed by their laws. I'm opposed to the notion that any government be able to determine the authorization for information access and excerpt authority on foreign citizens.

And that decision is up to the country who has him in custody, which is the UK right now. They've refused extradition for hacking before in the case of Gary McKinnon [1] due to fears that he could end up in Guantanamo so we'll see, now that Guantanamo is effectively closed for entry.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon#Extradition_proc...

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