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Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

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Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#401

Post by JBiserkov »

interesthrow2 wrote: post #82
tambourine_man wrote: post #57

Interesting theory and thread: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/10697763353362923... “This isn’t about Chrome. This is about ElectronJS. Microsoft thinks EdgeHTML cannot get to drop-in feature-parity with Chromium to replace it in Electron apps, whose duplication is becoming a significant performance drain. They want to single-instance Electron with their own fork”

The irony. They had HTA apps (running on IE engine which still work more or less, I replaced most default Win10 apps like the image viewer and the "groove" music player with a version of them built with HTA since they were slow as hell to start up) for 20 years already, they did barely anything with it, they didn't really invest seriously in a good browser engine (Edge isn't) and now all they can do is use Google's?…

>I'm actually starting to believe the people who are claiming that MS is rebuilding Office in JS from scratch...

Office is C++, with 85-95% code shared between Windows, OS X, Android, iOS and Web; with a very tiny presentation layer on top.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFmByeQ_ulo

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#402

Post by Piskvorrr »

badminton1 wrote: post #223
TanakaTarou wrote: post #183

What other options do they have? Even on HN you hear "I use Egde to download Chrome". Many of you here don't test your own work in Edge. At the same time Microsoft is getting the heat that Windows 10 is unstable and the last major update shows that it is. Very urgently, I imagine, Microsoft is trying to change the perception of Windows 10 by doing everything they can to make it more stable. Changing the browser engin…

It was a bad decision to make the logo similar to Internet Explorer, that alone is enough reason to not use it. They can change the tech as much as they want. They can hire armies of engineers and make the browser 1000% faster than Chrome... but if they reuse the stupid logo it will fail again, and again, and again until they give up and forget that logo ever existed.

Nah, that was an obvious and clumsy sleight-of-hand "it's not IE, nononono, don't look there, look here, hey presto! A completely new browser which is not at all a reskin of IE!"

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#403

Post by Ntrails »

SwellJoe wrote: post #293
colordrops wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't quite put my finger on it but something feels wrong about blaming the general populace for Edge's failure as a browser. Microsoft is one of the wealthiest companies on Earth. They've had every opportunity to use every marketing channel and dump resources into the team to make Edge an obvious winner. But they didn't.

I'm not sure what more they could do. They're extremely pushy about it in Windows. It takes several steps to make it stop pushing Edge when you open any web links. I don't use Edge (or Chrome) because I don't trust the companies that make them, and it's one small piece of my computing life I can withhold from them. So...there's nothing they could do to make Edge good enough for me, without fixing the lack of trust I…

> I'm not sure what more they could do.

Don't release a browser which cannot be made to adblock. I suspect that 90% of the vaguely techy world laughed at Edge the moment it's clear they'd have to accept autoplaying videos on webpages again. And like it or not those reactions filter through family and friends pretty effectively.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#404

Post by meuk »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #398
meuk wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Opera is a good browser that no-one uses, so it can't be just that. Tbh UX just isn't Microsofts strong suite (although I really like Windows 10).

Sorry, Opera is dead, and has been for years. It's now also frankenChrome, and none of the old, infinitely customizable options from the actual Opera has remained. The only thing left alive from Opera is the name.

At least it adheres to most standards, unlike many browsers. Many people don't care about customization.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#405

Post by kibwen »

Osiris wrote: post #184
kibwen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All commits to the Chrome codebase are gated through Google, an ad company whose driving motivation is in delivering value to shareholders, not to improving the web. Once the web becomes a Google monoculture, I won't be holding my breath to see any features land on the web that could threaten Google's bottom line.

I know what Google is. Aren't changes to many open source projects gated, like the Linux kernel? On a serious note, doesn't the license allow forks? Couldn't a large company just fork it and make changes without Google's approval? Once it becomes "de facto", couldn't one argue to setup a foundation outside of Google's control as is done in many other open source projects? I get that people hate Google but why bash on…

> Aren't changes to many open source projects gated, like the Linux kernel?

All projects gate commits somehow. It's not about the gating, it's about who is allowed to make the big decisions and how much buy-in they need to seek from other stakeholders before they're allowed to proceed. It's also about incentives; if Linus were, say, a Verizon employee and if the Linux Foundation were a Verizon subsidiary, people would feel much differently about the governance of the kernel. Likewise if the kernel were permissively licensed rather than GPL'd.

> On a serious note, doesn't the license allow forks? Couldn't a large company just fork it and make changes without Google's approval?

The thrust of the point here is that forking the codebase is no good if you can't convince people to install the browser and for websites to support the browser. It's a social problem.

> is it not open "enough"?

It's not. Open source gives users the freedom to fork. When forking isn't enough to preserve user freedom, the next step is open governance, which involves delegating decision-making power to users (with many interesting structural varieties to choose from). Amusingly, I gave a speech on this topic at All Things Open just a month ago.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#407

Post by Piskvorrr »

taneq wrote: post #259
ComputerGuru wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge isn’t IE. That you don’t know that is indicative of the problem.

The problem is that devs got so sick of IE6 not being standards compliant (despite the fact that it was released before the standards were finalised and it was so good that people kept using it for years) that they refused to even contemplate any MS web browser ever again?

Nope. IE6 was great, when it was released. That was...in 2001, seventeen years ago. Then MS sat on its hands for years, leaving IE6 in the dust. Then it suddenly woke up, and released IE7...which didn't differ much...and IE8, which was only about a year behind everyone else. And then MS sat on its hands again.

I remember the Second Browser War, and I find your account disingenuous at the very least. (And that's even before mentioning the bundling tactics)

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#408

Post by tracker1 »

TanakaTarou wrote: post #183

What other options do they have? Even on HN you hear "I use Egde to download Chrome". Many of you here don't test your own work in Edge. At the same time Microsoft is getting the heat that Windows 10 is unstable and the last major update shows that it is. Very urgently, I imagine, Microsoft is trying to change the perception of Windows 10 by doing everything they can to make it more stable. Changing the browser engin…

If Edge had a shorter development/release cycle and even came close to catching up to Chrome on features, I'd be happy to suggest it to people. I have time and again seen one feature or another just not work right when I have tested with Edge.

Right now, I'm just happy that I am able to put IE behind me at work. TBH, I like having some competition. I think the single bigest miss with Edge is the fact that people search for "Internet Explorer" and many wind up running that in windows out of habit, and those that know better prefer Chrome or Firefox.

Beyond that, the fact that it's shoved in your face at every other turn. Chrome syncs my settings cross platform. And I just haven't liked IE/Edge UI any time I've tried either. Despite issues I have with Chrome, it just works more like I want it to than the alternatives.

Frankly, I'm happy to see MS making a shift. A lot of tools have been made using Electron from MS at this point, with more in the works. So it makes sense that they'd make a shift. For that matter, I'd like to see better platform support with Node style APIs for application development in general, which may be the final target for these changes.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#410

Post by taneq »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #407
taneq wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that devs got so sick of IE6 not being standards compliant (despite the fact that it was released before the standards were finalised and it was so good that people kept using it for years) that they refused to even contemplate any MS web browser ever again?

Nope. IE6 was great, when it was released . That was...in 2001, seventeen years ago. Then MS sat on its hands for years , leaving IE6 in the dust. Then it suddenly woke up, and released IE7...which didn't differ much...and IE8, which was only about a year behind everyone else. And then MS sat on its hands again. I remember the Second Browser War, and I find your account disingenuous at the very least. (And that's eve…

Uh, wow - I said "it was so good that people kept using it for years" meaning "until 2005 or something", not "and IE6 is awesome and we should all use it until today".

I think your post here is more about your own PTSD from having to support IE6 than it was about my post. :S

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