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Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

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Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#401

Post by pilif »

Parcissons wrote: post #326
pilif wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can also push new browser releases though. They are also auto-installed by default. The exception is that an addon can do slightly less damage than a compromised browser itself.

I deeply hate this update methodology. Some hippster fresh from university decides that the gui, approach, functionality i use daily is no longer needed and pushes his rewrite into a release. One click later im stuck with this, because all the bundled crap is hijacking the "security" for a ride. If any software developer would truely respect users, he would offer updates as seperate packages, where users can opt out…

Imagine the complexity of maintaining the software when every patch must anticipate a fragmented mess of different pieces of patches being installed on target systems. Imagine the explosion of testcases required.

At that point, it’s probably better to just stop feature development and do nothing but security patches, which of course will lead to stagnation and which will also lead to fragmentation as many more incompatible releases of the same software will be out in use.

This will make it even harder for developers to adapt new technologies. Imagine how bad the already messy caniuse.com would look when every single browser version would be supported forever and could be individually configured feature by feature.

Especially as people somewhat versed in technology (I think it’s safe to call HN audience that), I think there is advantage in going with the flow and adapting to new releases and UI paradigms.

Otherwise we'd still be running on DOS and us developers would still have to support it.

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1172/

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#402

Post by bigbugbag »

lenzm wrote: post #302
UmmNope wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major problem was building a feature into the product that allowed for pushing add-ons without users knowledge much less active consent in the first place, there is no benign use for this kind of functionality.

You could use add-ons to manage optional functionality a la Atom. Users can enable and disable add-ons to customize their browser and some come enabled by default. If you were migrating to this method of customization it would absolutely make sense to push an enabled add-on that replaces functionality you took out of the main app.

Is this a thing ? History shows mozilla removing functionality but never replacing it. And then it's up to volunteers to make an extension to fill the gap, until mozilla breaks the extension or drops the extensions engine altogether.

For exemple australis and classic theme restorer.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#403

Post by bigbugbag »

michel-slm wrote: post #338
kryptiskt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major problem is that they installed an add-on without properly communicating what it was. A somewhat smaller problem but still a big problem is that was an utterly frivolous add-on that shouldn't have been pushed to people who didn't explicitly want it. But the biggest problem is that Mozilla seems to have trouble understanding why any of those two would be a problem, I want my browser vendor to be serious and n…

Indeed. I'm seeing people recommending Chromium (not Chrome) instead of Firefox because of this.

Why not recommending waterfox[1] instead ? It's firefox without the mozilla nonsense.

[1]:https://www.waterfoxproject.org/

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#404

Post by bigbugbag »

callahad wrote: post #246
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were the first incident, and they quickly backtracked on it, then maybe we can give them a pass. But this isn't the first case of somewhat shady behavior. Remember the "user-enhancing" sponsored tiles a few years ago? https://twitter.com/dherman76/status/433320156496789504 > Excited to share the launch of @mozilla @firefox Tiles program, the first of our user-enhancing programs The problem there wasn't just t…

That tweet sounds like doublespeak, but Directory Tiles really did have some genuinely good ideas mixed in with the bad. I don't know how far we got with it, but one of the ideas was to serve a generic bundle of ads, and then select which ones to display locally, based on an entirely private, client-side analysis of the browser's history. Now, that probably shouldn't have been on the new tab page, and probably not in…

The only good ideas about tiles were lifted of opera and better implemented in extensions.

Serving ads is never a good idea, and no, ads are not the way we fund the Internet, commercial ads is what is destroying the WWW and the Internet.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/adver...

https://thenextweb.com/eu/2017/06/09/pirate-bay-founder-weve...

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#405

Post by WhitneyLand »

bigbugbag wrote: post #391
WhitneyLand wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the harm in a good organization contributing lot of value to this world having a little fun. Some of the comments are mentioning IT managers banning firefox, those will be the same IT managers doing all the other pennywise/pound foolish things that make you try not to work on their team in the first place. Maybe it’s actually good to put something scary sounding in there to raise awareness. It could help…

What do you mean having a little fun ? Firefox is bleeding market share and has been for a while. Despite this, revenue and profit is at an all time high for mozilla which is weird as the revenue comes from sending theirs users to google for being profiled and exposed to ads. Meanwhile long time users lose faith and trust in mozilla and firefox. Not exactly the best time to be caught having "a little fun" move showin…

non sequitur. either it’s right or it’s wrong, whether or not you like the org as a whole doesn’t change that.

even so to briefly chase your point, do you believe they are doing net good, and some things are looking more positive, like the servo work? my only point is that criticism works on a relative scale. i agree there are things they could do better, but i still prefer they exist.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#406

Post by bigbugbag »

zie wrote: post #222
vorpalhex wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being added to the browser, outside the realm of security updates, through what is supposed to be a UX improvement program, for commercial purposes. It's written by a commercial company that produces advertisement content. It's not clear this code is audited. Sorry, but I'm uninstalling firefox. They have broken the basic trust I have in them as a user to not push arbitrary code to my machine against my inter…

Have fun in Lynx. that's probably the only browser that wouldn't do something like this. Well maybe Safari, not because Apple wouldn't, but because they just don't care enough about ad revenue. Chrome: They leech everything they can get away with, granted it goes only to Google, but you know it's just to feed their never-ending ad-revenue goal. MS: They bypassed IE only ads, and went on to build ads into the entire O…

what about otter ? waterfox ? uzbl ? poseidon ? netsurf ? falkon ? k-meleon ? Iron ? Iridium ? Liri ? Min ?

To cite some of the browsers you overlooked in your snarky comment.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#407

Post by WhitneyLand »

ryanisnan wrote: post #365
WhitneyLand wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the harm in a good organization contributing lot of value to this world having a little fun. Some of the comments are mentioning IT managers banning firefox, those will be the same IT managers doing all the other pennywise/pound foolish things that make you try not to work on their team in the first place. Maybe it’s actually good to put something scary sounding in there to raise awareness. It could help…

I don't look to my browser's implementation to "have a little fun". This is a foolish decision on Mozilla's part.

poor argument. ostensibly the only reason to separate business from pleasure is out of practical concerns. without stating practical concerns there’s no way consider the validity of your comment.

who knows, you may totally change my mind, but as it stands it makes it difficult to disagree or agree with you.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#408

Post by acqq »

kryptiskt wrote: post #383
kryptiskt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major problem is that they installed an add-on without properly communicating what it was. A somewhat smaller problem but still a big problem is that was an utterly frivolous add-on that shouldn't have been pushed to people who didn't explicitly want it. But the biggest problem is that Mozilla seems to have trouble understanding why any of those two would be a problem, I want my browser vendor to be serious and n…

So this is the first response from Mozilla in the Gizmodo article: “Firefox worked with the Mr. Robot team to create a custom experience that would surprise and delight fans of the show and our users. It’s especially important to call out that this collaboration does not compromise our principles or values regarding privacy. The experience does not collect or share any data,” Jascha Kaykas-Wolff, chief marketing offi…

> Don't talk the ethics talk if you're not prepared to do the ethics walk.

Exactly.

> "The experience does not collect or share any data," Jascha Kaykas-Wolff, chief marketing officer of Mozilla, said

Looking in the sources of the extension, it adds additional HTML header to every HTML request to https://www.red-wheelbarrow.com/forkids/ pages. The activity of the users there could of course be tracked and the data dependent on the extension being active collected. Good try Mr. marketing officer of Mozilla delivering Mr. Robot ad using the mechanism for the "studies."

> "Firefox worked with the Mr. Robot team to create a custom experience that would surprise and delight fans of the show and our users."

Obviously fail. Surprise, yes. Delight? No.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#409

Post by bigbugbag »

feelin_googley wrote: post #324
zie wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have fun in Lynx. that's probably the only browser that wouldn't do something like this. Well maybe Safari, not because Apple wouldn't, but because they just don't care enough about ad revenue. Chrome: They leech everything they can get away with, granted it goes only to Google, but you know it's just to feed their never-ending ad-revenue goal. MS: They bypassed IE only ads, and went on to build ads into the entire O…

The truth is that there have been other text-only browsers both before and after lynx. I have tried every one I could ever find, since the 1990s. Some of them seem to have been forgotten. IMO, whatever is in todays package collections is not a true representation of all text-only browsers ever written. Most times when someone cites "lynx", as is common on HN, I interpret this as a signal they are not too familiar wit…

The browser is not even needed with stuff like weboob[1] (WEB Outside Of Browsers).

[1]: http://weboob.org/

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#410

Post by franga2000 »

toyg wrote: post #384
hitekker wrote: post #319

1) Mozilla uses weird, spooky language in an add-on. 2) Users are justifiably concerned. 3) Mozilla explains that the add-on is actually anodyne; the developers responsible were having fun with an opt-in research service. 4) Some users try to justify their initial overreaction by painting Firefox as mysterious, dangerous entity, fabulating conspiracy theories about one of the most forthright and open OSS companies in…

1) One day you wake up and somebody is watching TV in your living room. 2) you freak out. Who is this guy? I didn't invite anyone last night! 3) The guy turns around and it's just your mate Chad. He didn't mean any harm, just wanted to watch TV and hang out. 4) This is not on, Chad is a psycho. Intentions don't really matter: they've just demonstrated a scary and invasive capability without any warning. Minimizing it…

This "scary and invasive capability" has been included in almost every larger piece of software for years and is widely accepted to be a mostly good thing - it's called automatic updates. Considering updates allow pushing native, even admin-level code, this capability of pushing little bits of JS becomes benign in comparison. Therefore, the only thing that's left to worry about are their intentions. And I, for one, would rather trust the goodness of Mozilla's intentions than Google's or Microsoft's.
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