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New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

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Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#401

Post by dsacco »

Khelavaster wrote: post #322
icelancer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But have you thought about why you feel this way? Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. I very much understand the concept of leverage and have no problems privately discussing my salary amongst groups that I trust. That doesn't include the entire Internet.

>> Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. The entire point is that it's deeply screwed up for you to need to hide your wealth from your neighbors--or from some set of neighbors but not others--for fear of being robbed.

> The entire point is that it's deeply screwed up for you to need to hide your wealth from your neighbors--or from some set of neighbors but not others--for fear of being robbed.

That's a normative statement, not a positive one. I don't consider it at all screwed up or intrinsically wrong to want to hide my income from my neighbors.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#402

Post by dragonwriter »

SiVal wrote: post #394
rifung wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Why is it more ridiculous? We already have laws against discrimination based on gender. If the issue isn't being solved, while being hands off, it seems natural to try something different. > It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something Well it does seem employers are incapable of eliminating the gender wage gap so perh…

The next step I'd like to see is for them to prohibit asking where you went to college. You still need to show credentials, but if you went to an accredited 4-year institution and got a BS in, say, chemistry, you would say you had an accredited BS in chemistry, and there would be a gov't database against which that claim could be checked. Someone who couldn't afford the tuition at a ritzy private school but still com…

> The next step after that would be for accreditation to be made more flexible, accommodating combinations of work-study, self-study, community college, private lab classes, and standardized testing to qualify a person for an accredited degree without having attended a traditional university at all.

You can already get an accredited 4-year (or graduate) degree without traditional University; e.g., through Western Governor's University, which is an accredited but non-traditional, competency-based, online school that’s been operating for almost 20 years.

https://www.wgu.edu/why_WGU/competency_based_approach

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#403

Post by xigency »

kileywm wrote: post #143
nicolashahn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of off topic but should one always hide their current salary, even if it's above market rate (given their experience on paper)? It seems as though if an employer were only looking to spend so much on a hire, then if you're already likely above that number, wouldn't it save both you and the employer's time? I can see the obvious downside of sharing a relatively low salary, but it seems like there could be benefit…

I'd recommend hiding it. Here's why: Your future salary expectations likely have a basis in your current salary. Prospective employers know this. Prospective employees know this. If expectations are stated, with that understanding, then your current salary should be irrelevant. If you're having trouble signaling your value to a prospective employer, then your current (good) salary, seems like an easy way to communica…

> Your future salary expectations likely have a basis in your current salary.

Not necessarily true. My future salary expectations (or _needs_) may have to do with a previous salary, my cost of living, my recent experience or education, or my financial situation.

I've worked in different cities with different COL and also taken cuts in a down-turned market. My current employer is getting a bargain.

If I apply for a job and am asked for this information, I may say, I make $X but I need $2X for reasons A, B, C.

This benefits me because the response tells me if I am out of their range or if they can help me pay my bills, potentially.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#404

Post by marssaxman »

cisanti wrote: post #368
s73ver_ wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a problem with it. I never saw the reason why any employer needed to know what someone was paid before. A job is worth around $X to your company to be performed. What I was paid in my previous job has absolutely no bearing on that.

But you can always use it to your leverage too, I have lied about my previous salary before and it worked out great.

Why should you have to do that? If they can't ask, you don't have to lie, and wouldn't that be a better world to live in?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#405

Post by icelancer »

Sangermaine wrote: post #321
icelancer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But have you thought about why you feel this way? Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. I very much understand the concept of leverage and have no problems privately discussing my salary amongst groups that I trust. That doesn't include the entire Internet.

We were talking about your friends and family knowing. If you're concerned that your friends and family might rob your home if they knew your salary, you've got larger problems than talking about it.

You're being quite biased towards people with normal family lives. Haven't had deadbeat parents or relatives demand your time or money for free simply because you make more money?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#406

Post by dsacco »

marvin wrote: post #146
ianai wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All such information is public there?

What you pay in taxes is public (anyone can look it up), and it's normally easy to calculate taxable income from that. (Not always, there could be various events that throws the calculation off). Although in recent years, all lookups are logged and displayed to the other party, which has a chilling effect. I would like the old system back.

So you want the data to be public, but you don't want the data about who accesses the data to be public?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#407

Post by pravda »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #8
civilian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equifax has salary data? I hadn't heard that. //edit: Well shit, TIL: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/10/equifax-breach-fallout-y...

Any time you apply for a credit card or other form of credit, you generally have to give your income.

>you generally have to give your income.

Well, you certainly don't have to give your "real" income. Aspirational income is fine.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#408

Post by whipoodle »

smallnamespace wrote: post #46

This is not going to be nearly as helpful as people think, as long as it's still legal for employers to verify salary once it's been revealed. People who know or suspect that their salary is above the average applicant's will volunteer it to the prospective employer. Other people will choose not to disclose. We will reach an equilibrium where non-disclosure will be an honest signal of lower current salary. The main d…

Oh, I didn’t know they verified it. I’ve never disclosed, but if I was pressed I figured I’d lie because it’s none of their business anyway. I can’t see why your current employer would verify that, though. Plus it’s a dead giveaway that you’re looking to leave... this just seems sort of crazy to me.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#409

Post by whipoodle »

adventurer wrote: post #363
otakucode wrote: post #31

I've never once answered such a question and never understood why anyone would. When they ask, you tell them you don't give out that information. I've never even had someone question that or ask twice.

I'm pretty sure companies have ruled me out from even contacting because I left past salary blank. I didn't check their hr boxes and that was likely one.

I would be fine with that, personally.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#410

Post by MarkPNeyer »

geebee wrote: post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

You don't need to attach names - just job titles should be sufficient to dramatically reduce the information asymmetry.
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